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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Men discriminated against from cradle to grave according to Dominic Raab MP

447 replies

JustineMumsnet · 24/01/2011 11:19

Writing in an article on Politics Home, Dominic Raab MP for Esher and Walton has written:

"It is almost taboo for a man to question the assertion that the rapidly dwindling pay gap is the result of discrimination, rather than genuine choice. The debate has been consumed by the prejudice it seeks to purge."

"While we have some of the toughest anti-discrimination laws in the world, we are blind to some of the most flagrant discrimination ? against men. From the cradle to the grave, men are getting a raw deal. Men work longer hours, die earlier, but retire later than women. "

Then there is the more subtle sexism. Men caused the banking crisis. Men earn more because they are more assertive in pay negotiations. One FT commentator recently complained that: ?High-flying women are programmed to go for high-flying men. Most men aren?t attracted to women who are more successful than they are.? Can you imagine the outrage if such trite generalisations were made about women, or other minorities? Feminists are now amongst the most obnoxious bigots."

"You can?t have it both ways. Either you believe in equality or you don?t. If you buy into the whole Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus theory of gender difference ? with all its pseudo science - you can?t then complain about inequalities of outcome that flow both ways from those essentially sexist distinctions."

What do you think MNetters?

OP posts:
sethstarkaddersmackerel · 25/01/2011 19:07

I hope not.
SGB hasn't actually libelled him, she's just said what his pose makes her think of.
It's nothing to the vulgar abuse that happens on here all the time.

LeninGrad · 25/01/2011 19:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Truckulente · 25/01/2011 19:23

Isn't it a bit 'Andy Gray' to start ridiculing him about his perceived sexual behaviour?

BelleDameSansMerci · 25/01/2011 19:24

SGB - bloody brilliant... Just brilliant. Smile

HerBeX · 25/01/2011 19:33

Not really Truck. Andy Gray ridiculed the female referee, solely and purely because she is female. We're ridiculing Raab because of what he said, not because he is male.

HTH

StuffingGoldBrass · 25/01/2011 21:01

IN the link I saw there is a pic of gimp boy with his wife's hand rather firmly on his shoulder. The rest is of course mischevious supposition.
And satirical speculation is not libel. If I were to say that I had seen him being used as toilet seat with someone else stapling his cock to a breadboard and insist this were true, that might be libellous.

sethstarkaddersmackerel · 25/01/2011 21:05

and you're quite sure you haven't? quite sure?

HerBeX · 25/01/2011 21:09

I love the casual way in which you might see people being used as toilet seats SGB.

Whereas I might just see someone buying avocadoes in Waitrose.

Grin
TheCrackFox · 25/01/2011 21:09

Unlike po-faced feminists I am sure Raab will be able to take a joke. Wink

Truckulente · 25/01/2011 21:34

Used as a toilet seat? I've led a sheltered life...

Wba17 · 25/01/2011 22:49

Men hold more power and money in the world because more men are out there going to get it. There is - undeniably - a large amount of women content with a life feminists would frown upon because it's supposedly what men would want.

You'll find that men are facing discrimination, not only in a minor way due to (some) of the more rational things he's said here, but because there's a huge amount of positive discrimination in women's favour nowadays.

StuffingGoldBrass · 25/01/2011 23:58

WBA, are you another one who wants to be told what a naughty, naughty boy you are?

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 26/01/2011 00:44

:o at HerBea and her kinky avocado-purchasers.

Is anyone else picturing exactly how you would use a person as a toilet seat? Do you make them hop up on top of the thing before you flush, a bit like an oversized toilet roll doll (seen here in Tory blue) to prevent the spray of shite around the room?

ISNT · 26/01/2011 09:16

"Men hold more power and money in the world because more men are out there going to get it. There is - undeniably - a large amount of women content with a life feminists would frown upon because it's supposedly what men would want."

Oh absolutely. Women around the world are in the position of not being allowed to vote, not being allowed out of the house without a male relative, not being allowed to work, not being allowed to own property, not being allowed rights to their children. They are in the position where rape in marriage is legal and they can be married off to adult men when they are children. Women choose some really odd things, don't they. Absolutely their choice though - if they want things to be different all they have to do is say and it will be changed. What silly women.

sethstarkaddersmackerel · 26/01/2011 09:34

I want to know what this life is that feminists would frown on.
And if I am a SAHM does that mean I have to frown on myself?

sethstarkaddersmackerel · 26/01/2011 09:35

Oh no! You've seen my Cath Kidston apron! I'm going to get booted out of the feminist section!

sethstarkaddersmackerel · 26/01/2011 09:37

I want to be a man so I can talk shit about stuff I know nothing about and expect to get listened to.

sethstarkaddersmackerel · 26/01/2011 09:37
Beachcomber · 26/01/2011 09:50

I know seth it makes me hoot every time the 'Ok so I know fuck all about this but I WILL be listened to because I have a penis' attitude.

Ach well I have never seen anyone being used as a toilet seat and don't even have Waitrose near me so I've got to get my laughs somehow.

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 26/01/2011 09:58

I want to tell everyone what the trouble is with modern men. Well, what I mean is, I see a lot of problems in the world and I'm going to see how many of those I can pin on men in a 500 word article. The only problem is, that's what the rest of the newspaper is full of (they call it "News").

All these articles about how women are secretly ruling the world get so much attention because it is patently bollocks (or ovaries if you will). Write an article about how men are being sexist and everyone just goes "yawn, yes we know, next".

melezka · 26/01/2011 10:22

My favourite bit is the "you'll find".

MANSPLAIN

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 26/01/2011 10:37

Have you responded to this, Justine? Just wondering whether you were going to use any of our comments for anything.

JustineMumsnet · 26/01/2011 10:53

No I haven't spoken to anyone - the E Standard were interested in my thoughts but think I took too long to get back. But thanks for all your posts. Obviously is an interesting issue that will come up again and again so very good to get some input.

OP posts:
sethstarkaddersmackerel · 26/01/2011 11:01

My favourite bit is about the huge amount of positive discrimination in favour of women. I want to know where it is so I can go and take advantage of it.

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 26/01/2011 11:01

Again and again eh? Oh god, have the Tories got a secret stash of misgynist arseholes and they're releasing them into the wild one at a time?

Thanks for getting back.