Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Men discriminated against from cradle to grave according to Dominic Raab MP

447 replies

JustineMumsnet · 24/01/2011 11:19

Writing in an article on Politics Home, Dominic Raab MP for Esher and Walton has written:

"It is almost taboo for a man to question the assertion that the rapidly dwindling pay gap is the result of discrimination, rather than genuine choice. The debate has been consumed by the prejudice it seeks to purge."

"While we have some of the toughest anti-discrimination laws in the world, we are blind to some of the most flagrant discrimination ? against men. From the cradle to the grave, men are getting a raw deal. Men work longer hours, die earlier, but retire later than women. "

Then there is the more subtle sexism. Men caused the banking crisis. Men earn more because they are more assertive in pay negotiations. One FT commentator recently complained that: ?High-flying women are programmed to go for high-flying men. Most men aren?t attracted to women who are more successful than they are.? Can you imagine the outrage if such trite generalisations were made about women, or other minorities? Feminists are now amongst the most obnoxious bigots."

"You can?t have it both ways. Either you believe in equality or you don?t. If you buy into the whole Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus theory of gender difference ? with all its pseudo science - you can?t then complain about inequalities of outcome that flow both ways from those essentially sexist distinctions."

What do you think MNetters?

OP posts:
ElephantsAndMiasmas · 24/01/2011 23:53

Yes. Mind you, they also linked to antimisandry.com and angryharry, which are pretty much the BNP of gender relations, so they're obviously a few testicles short of a parliament.

sakura · 25/01/2011 09:24

yes, women who behave in a feminine way are rewarded for their behaviour and cultural conditioning: in business, in society, in general.

Women who refuse to defer to men with displays of "femininity" are punished.

It's all in Beauty and Misogyny

sakura · 25/01/2011 09:29

the slant of that article was "let that be a lesson to you, ladies . Behave in a feminine way or you will suffer

whereas a feminist would point out that if, as the article states, "These findings suggest if these women learn how to self-monitor their behavior, they have a better chance of promotion." then it shows how deeply misogyny is ingrained into our society.

Femininity is an act, after all. Lots of men "do" femininity better than women.
Feminine and female are not synonymous, but the patriarchy believes it should be, and gives out brownie points (or in this case, promotions) to women who know their place

sethstarkaddersmackerel · 25/01/2011 09:31

I was a bit amused that the link to Angry Harry (if we are talking about the same one) was presenting it as if it was a serious political site - and then it is the rantings of misogynist lunatics.
I mean if you are trying to convince people you have sane and have a point, calling your site 'Angry Harry' is not going to help....

sethstarkaddersmackerel · 25/01/2011 09:32

convince people you are sane I mean

sakura · 25/01/2011 09:46

lol!
on a serious note, that's the scary thing. they believe they're justified in their anger against women

sakura · 25/01/2011 09:53

back to the OP. remember that David Mitchell pole-dancing article

He pointed out that if life wasn't unfair for men from time to time then, well, it wouldn't be fair, would it.

ThePosieParker · 25/01/2011 10:08

I spoke with a man last night who agrees with this MP, saying that women aren't in the top jobs because they chose to stay home with dcs and will not commit to 24/7 commitment to employers.

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 25/01/2011 10:32

which hospital did they take him to, Posie?

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 25/01/2011 10:32

damn, "more" information.

sethstarkaddersmackerel · 25/01/2011 13:59

OMG has anyone else seen CiF on this? I've just read about 25 profeminist comments and only one misogynist one!

for once DM and CiF are not on the same page....

sethstarkaddersmackerel · 25/01/2011 14:04

seen a few more now I've read to the end but the preponderance is pro-feminist. Smile

vesuvia · 25/01/2011 15:51

After listening to the radio interview and reading the article, it wouldn't surprise if the only feminist Dominic Raab has ever heard of is Harriet Harman, and he is negatively stereotyping feminism and all feminists through his opinion of her.

HerBeX · 25/01/2011 16:19

What's CiF?

vesuvia · 25/01/2011 16:22

Mr Raab appears to think that discrimination against women no longer exists because the gender pay gap has been halved over the past 40 years. I don't even agree that it has been halved!

He also appears to think that waiting 7 more years for the retirement age to be equalised for men and women is unjustified, obvious discrimination against men by feminists. What part have feminists actually played in preventing that equalisation of retirement ages? My guess is "not much".

I predict that, seven years from now, the retirement age will be the same for men and women thus eliminating that discrimination, but the gender pay gap will still exist. Will Mr Raab still be so bothered then?

HerBeX · 25/01/2011 16:23

OMG at this from that link:

"These findings suggest if these women learn how to self-monitor their behavior, they have a better chance of promotion."

Hello? These findings suggest that some people in charge of promotions, need to do an equality and diversity course, so that they are made aware of their atrocious sexism.

Can you imagine a scientist saying "black people should act more like white people expect/ want them to and stop being so upppity"?

It's incredible that that comment can be published without any challenge to the sexist assumptions behind it.

sethstarkaddersmackerel · 25/01/2011 16:24

Comment Is Free, also known as Misogyny is Free.

(actually maybe I'm talking rubbish and Comment Is Free is only a certain part of the Guardian website comments, but it's the same people anyway).

SmellsLikeTeenStrop · 25/01/2011 16:24

Raab logic:

When women are disadvantaged compared to men it is because women have chosen to be disadvantaged.

When men are disadvantaged compared to women it is because men are being actively discriminated against by evil feminist bigots.

The fact that so many people are buying this defies credulity really it does.

PfftTheMagicDragon · 25/01/2011 16:29

So the pay gap halves and inequality is wiped out forever? A pay gap exists.

dipshit

David51 · 25/01/2011 16:29

HerBeX
What's CIF?

Comment is Free in the Guardian

www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jan/24/football-sexist-comments-andy-gray-richard-keys

David51 · 25/01/2011 16:31

By the way...

Breaking news - Sky Sports presenter Andy Gray sacked after 'new evidence of unacceptable and offensive behaviour'.

www.guardian.co.uk/

vesuvia · 25/01/2011 16:36

A quote from the BBC radio 4 PM programme interview:

Interviewer: "Didn't men cause the banking crisis?"

Mr Raab : "In one sense, you can make the point that some of the banks have got a larger proportion of men to women, but jumping from that basic factual point to causation, I think is sexist"

I think the interviewer was trying to make the point that the people in charge who caused the crisis were men. Sexism is also about quality, not just quantity.

LeninGrad · 25/01/2011 16:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

StuffingGoldBrass · 25/01/2011 17:04

(initially posted on the other thread but want to share it with the rest of you too)

I'll tell you what I think. I had a look at the picture of him and his wife, and I looked at their posture.
Now my take is that they are actually in a full time subdom relationship when they're at home, and she is his Mistress. And this piece of his is not just a piece of squawky attention-seeking by a nondescript back-bencher no one would give a toss about if he hadn't pulled this stunt, it's so he can go home at night and go 'Mistress I've been ever so naughty this time' and she'll be ready with the nipple clamps, chastity device and floggers: 'Say it Slave! I have rebelled against the Supreme Female Order and deserve every punishment you can devise'....

HerBeX · 25/01/2011 18:49

PMSL Grin

That post will be pulled, you know