Helping teen DD shut down creeps

[ArtyBartFast]

DD 16 was in a cafe the other day with a friend when a middle aged man approached them, gave them a free drink he said he didn't have time to drink (!?). They accepted but when DDs friend went to the toilet, he reappeared and started talking to DD, asking questions like "are you a uni student".

She felt obliged to chat because she wasn't sure if he was being creepy or not. She tried to shut him down by saying she was younger than uni. He started going on about how lovely her friend was.

I've said she's not obliged to chat to anyone and any middle aged man chatting to young unknown girls in a cafe is inappropriate, and he knew it.

Any advice on what to say? Teens are pretty people pleasey, which I expect he was exploiting. Is there a good phrase I can teach her to shut this nonsense down?

I thought about grey rock but that's effort. One thing to remember would be great.

I'm so annoyed. They are nice kids giving a stranger the benefit of the doubt.

Moving on don't accept drinks and don't engage in any conversation. Make it clear she can just walk away. Urghhh.

Ugh so annoying. In these types of situations I would tell DD to let a member of staff know if she’s in a cafe / restaurant. As she gets older please also make her aware of Angela as she starts meeting people / going out to clubs. If on the street, just don’t engage.

Never accept a drink from a stranger -she doesn't know what's in it. And she can be (politely) rude: "I'm here with my friend and I don't want to talk to you, please leave me alone".

If he continues - she should talk to staff in the cafe and ask them to intervene.

Sadly there isn't one simple way to handle this sort of things.

Being 'rude' back to creepy men & boys doesn't come naturally and needs practice. Sadly most women get plenty of that over time. Try some role plays with her (and her friends if she wants to ask them round).

Get them to come up with the scenarios based on their experience and suggest some based on your own. Then practice the replies. Silence and a hard Paddington stare can work in some situations but in my experience just ignoring men and refusing to speak to them from the start can often escalate their behaviour and make them more aggressive - especially young adult males.

So we have to have some brief firm replies (including "go away") ready. I'd also advise her not to engage in a conversation or answer any personal questions, including her name, age, where she lives, school she goes to etc. That encourages creeps. The answer is, "I'm not telling you anything about myself" and turning her back.

The 'broken record' technique is helpful with persistent creeps. First answer is a bit longer and explanatory and friendlier, 2nd reply is shorter, third one word, and VERY clear. For example:

1. my friend and I are catching up and we don't need any company
2. We don't want to talk to you
3. Go away /leave us alone/ piss off If necessary repeat step 3.

If none of that works they need to be prepared to make a fuss, draw attention to what's happening, threaten to get help (from the cafe owner in this case, call her parents, or even calling the police), depending on the situation. I think any older woman (and many men) seeing a man harassing teenage girls would step in if it was clear they needed help.

Girls and women are socialised to be polite and as I'm sure you know, it does us no favours and even puts us in danger. You can help her overcome feeling uncomfortable when standing up for herself.

my daughters are really pretty and feel uncomfortable with the Male Gaze. They have learnt from me and their dad that they don't have to put up with things. Get her to reflect what she could have said to the man in that moment.

Perfect response -
it’s a toolbox rather than one phrase at the ready -
and learning this now will be required probably for many years ahead, until she becomes middle aged …. Ugh indeed.

In a loud voice so other people can hear:

"What were your intentions when you came over to talk to me?"

"I don't want to chat, please leave me alone"

"Why are you talking to me? This has gone beyond normal politeness between strangers"

First off, they need to know about the dangers of spiking - they should never accept a drink from a stranger. It’s ok to say that! “Thank you for the offer, but I can’t accept a drink from a stranger.”

And then it’s ok to say “Thank you, but I’m just relaxing with my friend, I’m not feeling like meeting new people”. Polite smile, firm tone.

If they persist then say (a bit louder than normal) “I just want to talk with my friend/relax alone, I don’t want to talk to you.”

After that it’s a case of calling over a waiter - or standing up and calling loudly to them “excuse me, this man is bothering me!” so that everybody around is aware.

I would add that this behaviour from males is not only relevant to the ‘really pretty’ ones

it is not unusual for the men of the creep variety to avoid the pretty ones, too intimidating, and actively seek out the ones that appear a little less secure in their skin, the ones who appear young but may be flattered by pretending they were mistaken for older,

males are generally looking to exploit their advantage and will naturally spot weakness / vulnerability- including age, size, lack of confidence / esteem / unfamiliarity/ naivety/ etc etc …..

I believe that when feeling creeped out, the best mindset is to act like a bloke

big body language, stand / sit / walk tall and take up space,
speak loud and assured
strong eye contact
language - e.g. you alright mate ? I’m busy here, look patronising at him, be frosty

Absolutely this - I was a less than pretty, unfashionably dessed teen with little confidence and it happened to me a lot. Part of my problem when worse stuff happened (at school, groping and rape threats) was that I was fairly sure i would either not be believed, because I was too plain, or be blamed, because in my school the girls usually were. I think we need to completely separate the reasons for sexual offences/harassment from the victim, it's ALL on the perpetrator.

I shut down a drunk hassling young women in an airport queue with, “Go away. Leave them alone. No-one wants to know.” Turned out they were police officers, so more than able to handle it 🤣

But I’d seen him coming and taken evasive action, only intervening when he hassled the women behind me who I’d assumed had failed to refuse to look at him.

Ha laughing at the fact he didn’t have time to drink it but apparently had time to chat. Men will try anything.
I agree with the poster who says you need a toolbox of responses. I think a lot of anger just comes with time and wisdom and getting totally fed up of being approached by creepy men. I was in my 20s before I felt comfortable enough to just tell them to fuck off, my politeness bag being empty by then. It’s a minefield. I was once out with one of mine in a bar when a guy around my own age came along to chat her up! She was too polite to tell him to do one, I certainly wasn’t.

I advised my daughter to say very loudly ‘I’m 14’ even up to the age of 20. I think she did it once and it was effective

edited as posted too soon
but bloody hell young women shouldn’t have to do that. In a public place saying that you don’t want to talk loudly enough for someone else to hear should lead to some one assisting, I have in a similar situation

Exactly !!!!!
framing the behaviour as ‘because you are pretty’ is incorrect and unhelpful -

it’s because he thinks he CAN take advantage

they actively spot vulnerability

Teach her to say in a loud voice 'Can you go away and leave us alone please?' And that if someone persists, to go and speak to the staff/bar manager/older woman and say can you help me please, this man is bothering me and won't leave me alone'. Get her to practice saying it out loud. Make sure she knows she doesn't have to be polite or accommodating if a strange man approaches her.

Most worrying thing is she accepted the drink. She has no idea what might have been in that.

There have been good suggestions of things to say, it just takes confidence and practice.

If she’s in public eg a cafe where there are other people to make it safe she should just give him a grimace and blank (not even grey rock). If you give them an inch they take a mile.

An outright “would you let your teen daughter accept a drink from a random middle aged man? Absolutely not. It’s very weird.” would be best but I realise at that age it’s very hard to find the confidence to do that.

blank and ignore, pretend to be on the phone, headphones in is always a good one

Yes, this

This is great advice too. And of course as we get older women do start to take up space in this way and of course get accused of being “unfeminine”.

fuck them all to hell

DD and her friends play what they call the "one word game" where they'll just get their phones out and stare at them, and answer any question with a single word, usually negative.

"Do you want this drink?"
"Nope"
"Are you students"
"Nope"
"Whats your plans today?"
"Nothing"

It's just a form of grey rocking I suppose, but they generally find it works.

When that doesn't work, they move on to loudly exclaiming "I'm 12, you sick freak" (They're not, they're all 18)

Thus far, that always does the job.

Yeah, I like this one.
I would get them to say "do you realise I'm a 14yr old child"
Dreading my dd getting older 😱

Teach her that she doesn’t have to smile at men, or thank them for unwanted attention.

They should absolutely not have accepted a drink, that was very dangerous.

“This conversation is inappropriate, please leave us in peace”

I wish someone (or everyone) had taught me much younger that I didn't have to smile/ be polite/ say please - when trying to evade male attention.

Now, at 46, I can just say 'I have no interest in talking to you, leave me be' but bloody hell as a teen and young woman I went through so many twists and turns to avoid saying just thise words.

I have boys, but if I had girls I would be teaching them from dot to just say 'I don't want to speak to you, leave me alone' to ANY unwanted male attention. Women find it so hard to be 'rude' and maintain safe boundaries - men have no such qualms about trampling all over them

I remember being harassed around that age and saying "for fuck's sake, I'm 15, leave me alone" loud enough that it would normally attract an intervention. Now that I'm old and uninteresting to creeps, I've intervened for younger women.

One guy flashed me on a train when I was a teenager and his mates dragged him away and bashed him for it. Hopefully nothing so extreme will happen to your daughter.

She could definitely do with some role playing of what to say, and especially how to handle being offered an unwanted drink - could have been anything in it.

Male entitlement really does make me see red.