Can we talk about the GIRLS ....Adolescence

[Noangelbuthavingfun]

Watched the 4 part series. Gut wrenching ... I have a boy and desperately want him to value woman, their rights, respect both sexes, and turn into a well rounded human. What Jamie did it unforgivable. But I don't want to talk about that ... I've since just dipped a toe into reading this manosphere stuff and I've got to he honest if women/girls today behave like this - degrading men, bullying, branding people incels and dragging some into an anxiety ridden young adulthood that they'll never be worthy of a relationship ..... WHAT HOPE DO ANY of the sexes have . I'm appaled at hoe Girls can behave to each other (lots of friends with girls) and it opened my eyes to what they can also do to boys. Not excusing the backlash - but CAN WE TALK ABOUT THE GIRLS. They were portrayed as vile in the series too. What needs to happen here ? As I can see a world coming where boys and girls grow up with pretty screwed up views on both sides? So sad to see and I don't know what I'm looking for - just wondered if anyone else thiught about it too? As society we should be focused on both boys and girls .... I'll probably be flamed now.

Do you realise that a big part of the incel delusion is simply being told no? That’s literally it.

Do you realise that a big part of it is about getting the “hot” girl? That they have a right to it and the stuck up bitches won’t give them the time of day .

Even worse, do you realise that they react even more aggressively and negatively when they deem a not “hot “ girl or a vulnerable one worthy of their attention and they STILL get rejected? How dare she?

Do you realise a big part of it is about dehumanising women and girls? Seeing them as objects/robots? That they have specific language to indicate this. That they have long lists of requirements(from weight limits , to full submission )about what a “good” woman would be.

Girls don’t owe shit to boys, especially not their time,company or their bodies.

Guess what? Letting them down gently, with a smile and nicey nicey doesn’t work either. She’s still a stuck up bitch, but a fake one that HE will think laughs about him behind his back. And the anger bubbles.

Men worry women will laugh at them, women worry men will kill them.

Not excusing the backlash

You think the manosphere is "backlash" against the behaviour of women and girls? Really? Rather than, perhaps, women and girls calling men incels is backlash against the culture of rape, abuse, and toxicity that men created? Speaking to them in their language because apparently that's the only way to get through to them?

No I don't which is why I'm asking- your last sentence is very worrying and yes I can see/ resonate with that . It's a messed up world and it needs to change... thanks for sharing your view

Katie turned Jamie down and then made unkind comments on his instagram.

Jamie stabbed Katie 7 times and thinks that he was a good person for not sexually assaulting his corpse.

If these are examples of the most “vile” of each sex then the differences are rather stark.

I'm not sure how it came about and just reacting to what I observed and loosely read - its all messed up and I wonder how we change the behaviours on both sides as that really needs to happen - respect for both otherwise it perpetuates hatred . I know men who have been crushed by women, I have good girlfriends who were ruined by men ...

We need to teach our kids to treat everyone respectfully, boys and girls.
Online bullying is a huge problem. The reality is that in real like Katie's bullying would be more likely to lead to suicide rather than murder. 13 year old boys murdering 13 year old girls is extremely rare. Teen suicide is not unfortunately.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 excellently said

Completely agree!

I'm not sure how it came about and just reacting to what I observed and loosely read - its all messed up and I wonder how we change the behaviours on both sides as that really needs to happen - respect for both otherwise it perpetuates hatred . I know men who have been crushed by women, I have good girlfriends who were ruined by men ...

It pretty much came up from girls saying "no", as a PP said.

It's entitlement. You know the type of bloke that hits on a woman in the street when they don't know him from Adam, and then shouts something like "stuck up fat bitch, wouldn't go near you anyway" when they don't engage? Goes immediately to insults because she dared not give the reaction he wanted? Didn't think "maybe she didn't like me shouting "oi love, show us your tits!" on the high street, because the problem is her, not him.

It's like that, except they all got together to talk to each other about how disgusting women are for daring to do that and it turned into a festering pit that feeds on itself and teaches boys from a young age that women are below them.

Some boys find it because they are genuinely a bit nervous and uncomfortable around girls and want some tips. They find pick up artist pages that talk about how to emotionally manipulate women and girls into dating them, by doing things like negging (being horrible to them so that the girl subconsciously wants to work hard for his approval), and slowly get sucked into a culture where they believe they just need to play the numbers game. Hit on many girls. Have sex with as many as you can. Stacys (attractive, "high value"girls) are the aim (for all men) but they only want to date "chads", because they're uptight sluts. Practice on the "Beckys" (average women) until you have the skills to pull a Stacy.

No one has an obligation to date anyone. If you can't handle rejection, you shouldn't be in the dating pool. Yes, women can be cruel, humans can be in general, but I can categorically say I have never heard of women banding together and treating men as sub-human en masse as part of a community they identify with. Why should women and girls be nice to people that treat them like that?

13 year olds, maybe, but men and boys (eg Logan Macphail who was 16 when he murdered Holly Newton with a knife) murdering women and girls because they feel rejected is not rare at all.

I agree.

There’s a wide range in the manosphere. It starts “innocently” enough with memes and posts about being a nice guy and friendzone. Moaning about how they do all these nice things so he’s a nice guy and she still won’t put out. Or how she won’t see him as more than a friend. That’s not being genuinely nice , that’s doing something to get something back (the woman). They genuinely don’t see that and it escalates to anger and frustration and deeper down the rabbit hole we go.

It continues in splitting women into two categories.

Incels see women as either “Stacys,” who are hyperfeminine, attractive, and unattainable and who only date “Chads” (muscular, popular men who are presumed to sleep with lots of women), or “Beckys,” the “average” woman.

One visual explainer describes a Becky as wearing “loose baggy clothing to hide small tits/flat ass” and needing to wear “super tight yoga pants to get a few looks.” She allegedly carries a “$5 backpack” and has a “nerdy bun” because she “thinks guys like the ‘natural’ look.”

Meanwhile, a Stacy has a “naturally curvy body” with “big tits and ass” that “give men instant erections.” She has “sexy, majestic long blonde hair,” her makeup is “on point” and she carries a “$2,000 Gucci bag” and “lives in luxury”

They want the Stacy and despise the Becky, but can’t get either.

So we go even lower down.

Women in general are also referred to in dehumanizing terms such as “femoids” or “FHOs (Female Humanoid Organism).”

We get the requirement lists(will attach an example) , the women are evil narrative, that they gatekeep sex as an active act of aggression against men , and the unfairness of it all. The deeper you go, the more racist/white supremacist they become too. There is no reflection, no accountability that their own attitudes, words and actions are incredibly off putting and scary to women , which is why they get rejected. Just more anger and frustration. And further down the rabbit hole we go.

That’s where we end up with the ones that murder women and girls , write manifestos, they encourage and goad eachother into acts of violence and praise at the altar of previous murderers.

That’s the manosphere in a nutshell. I dare you to find such an organised and escalating cesspit anywhere in a female community of women or girls. There isn’t.

P.S. The bubblegum pink refers to labia colour. Yes, it goes that far. Yes, there are worse ones out there.

Credit to Atwood for the quote.

Unfortunately I think this nails it.
Isn't it something like one woman a week is killed by her husband or partner? What are the stats the other way round? Pretty tiny in comparison.
There isn't an equivalence here.
True, girls can be mean. But I don't think this is an issue that would go away if girls were 'nicer'. Men have to find a way to accept equality and rejection without having such frail egos.
Patriarchy, ego and entitlement are trapping men in unhappiness.

What do you mean by 'crushed' and what do you mean by 'ruined' though? People of either sex can be kind or unkind in how they turn down or break up with people. However, I don't think that generally girls and women feel the entitlement to men's attention or bodies that boys and men often seem to feel towards girls' and women's attention and bodies.

I'd recommend you read 'men who hate women' by Laura Bates. It gives you an insight into why men hate women so much.

You say you've dipped your toe into the manosphere and you concluded that the fault lies with women? I'd say you need to look at little further.

My interpretation is that for generations mediocre men were successful, could control women and their only competition were other men.
Now women have choice, autonomy and access to parts of society that were previously shut off to them. Women are fighting back against inequality, poor behaviour and violence.

The only way men still have power over women is through strength. So that's what they use.

Men who engage in the manosphere don't view women as equals. To them, women should be controlled, viewed only as sexual objects and breeding stock.

Exactly this. Well said.

Sigh. There’s always one who completely misses the point and goes “but what about X”. No. There is no “what about the nasty girls?”. Like a previous poster said - men worry women will laugh at them, women worry men will kill them. There is no comparison.

@WhenYouSayNothingAtAll low iron levels??

I don't understand the 80:20 thing. I think women are more tolerant of men not being in the top 20% for looks than men are of women. So why are women criticised for it?

And a status symbol. That’s the real biggie.

Because the vast majority envy the “Chads” and aspire to be them. They feel inferior and jealous. While they might sneer at the Chads and hate them (while desperately wanting to be them), they don’t have the guts to stand up to them or take them on. So they blame the women, for choosing the “Chads”, while at the same time only wanting a “Stacy” as a signifier that they too can be /are a “Chad”. They want these women, the same way some people want and display particular brands . There’s no real connection, or interest in the woman herself.

Low energy.

Low energy and brain fog. They can't argue or fight back. Iron, like red meat, is masculine.

Because in the incel mind 80% of the women are only wanting the best looking/successful 20% of men, thus not leaving a lot for the rest of them.
It is not based in reality. Women/girls being nicer and kinder won’t change any of that.

Absolutely spot on 100% agree with every word 👏