Can we talk about the GIRLS ....Adolescence

[Noangelbuthavingfun]

Watched the 4 part series. Gut wrenching ... I have a boy and desperately want him to value woman, their rights, respect both sexes, and turn into a well rounded human. What Jamie did it unforgivable. But I don't want to talk about that ... I've since just dipped a toe into reading this manosphere stuff and I've got to he honest if women/girls today behave like this - degrading men, bullying, branding people incels and dragging some into an anxiety ridden young adulthood that they'll never be worthy of a relationship ..... WHAT HOPE DO ANY of the sexes have . I'm appaled at hoe Girls can behave to each other (lots of friends with girls) and it opened my eyes to what they can also do to boys. Not excusing the backlash - but CAN WE TALK ABOUT THE GIRLS. They were portrayed as vile in the series too. What needs to happen here ? As I can see a world coming where boys and girls grow up with pretty screwed up views on both sides? So sad to see and I don't know what I'm looking for - just wondered if anyone else thiught about it too? As society we should be focused on both boys and girls .... I'll probably be flamed now.

Wrt hyper masculinity being attractive in fantasy but less so in reality - hasn't this been studied and the suggestion is that it is because in a fantasy a 'dominant' man gives an 'excuse'/plausible deniability for behaving in a sexually receptive way towards them that society might otherwise condemn, but in real life nobody likes coercion and loss of autonomy (and women have other stuff to be doing sometimes).

The fact that vids like that exist , especially on mainstream platforms is part of the problem. Nevermind the fucked up algorithms that suggest it. Then you only have to watch one .. curiosity, impulse, mindless scrolling etc and then you get inundated with more videos and more extreme content.

There are women, a minority maybe but they exist, who hit their male partners in the absolute belief they won’t hit them back, because they’re male.

That is still calculated violence.

The extreme behaviour there is instigated by the females.

Women often are the victims, and are the more suppressed sex, but that doesn’t give us the right to behave however we like.

I couldn’t agree more. The algorithms are evil. I work in a highly educated environment that isn’t IT and it is astonishing how people at work and more importantly parents can’t get their heads around it.

The happy,happy,sad and then happy algorithms . Giving the dopamine hit and creating the addiction and then drawing you in. Teens and boomers and everyone else in between.

I remember when lads mags we a worry never saw a 9 yrs old with loaded but primarily school boys with unrestricted IPhones bonkers.

It certainly seemed to me Katie was being very nasty to Jamie.

Of course, that didn't mean she should be killed.

But that sort of behaviour has resulted in suicide.

Even if it just results in very unhappy people.

It's so mindblowingly depressing, even on a largely female forum, to read "it's not all men, it's women too'. Come on. In which parallel universe have people existed? How many boys do you know who have been sexually assaulted and/or raped? Because it's rife in under 18s. Misogyny is rising like a madsive disease and we need to wake up.

The solution isn't clear but it isn't good enough to bury your head in the sand. I have 2 teenage boys and 2 teenage girls too. And no I don't think that having good role models at home is enough. Boys can get radicalized and influenced and frankly I keep an eye on mine like a hawk. But something needs to be done.

Totally agree.

Nobody deserves to die for bullying someone, but she was bullying him.

The girl who attacked the lad in the playground saying “you killed my friend” - he didn’t. I know we found later it was his knife, but he didn’t kill her.

The overall point is obviously that men/boys shouldn’t be violently murdering women for doing/saying things they don’t like, but I don’t think we can ignore that women and girls don’t always behave impeccably - we’re not saints.

No they don’t always behave impeccably, but they are also held to higher standards.

So even when they’re victims of male violence people like you come up with “well yeah, but…”.

Why are there so many threads on here where people complain about normal mistakes by DH, but the response is always red flags, and divorce.

There aren't. The things people say LTB over are not 'normal mistakes'. In fact usually they are not mistakes at all. They are almost persistent abuse, nastiness, lack of respect and/or just being a shit partner who expects the woman to be default parent and skivvy. When they are one-off 'mistakes', they tend to be very big ones. Like 'accidentally' shagging another woman, being abusive towards a child, or threatening or physically assaulting their wife/partner.

I actually hold them to the same standards.

Nobody should be manipulating, abusing, hurting or murdering anyone else.

They’re fairly basic standards, and they apply to both sexes.

Coercing girls into sending nudes and then sharing them all over the place has also resulted in suicides. We don’t talk about that though do we?

No, we’re talking about a girl who had already been victim to a sexual predator because she wasn’t nice and kind to another would be predator.

No you don’t. Because you seem to think that the girl attacking that boy is such a big deal and an outrageous act,when fights like that happen between boys every hour. But we don’t talk about that either.

And even if you are , and your post just read wrong, society doesn’t. Boys will be boys is still a thing. Girls should be nice and kind, maybe they won’t get murdered , or raped , or sexually assaulted then. If only.

Don’t tell me what I think, please. I’ve explained my views, I evidently know what they are.

I mentioned those two examples from the show, because that’s what we’re talking about.

We can talk about boys attacking each other, or girls being coerced into sending nudes.

They’re not the topic at hand, but I’m happy to confirm neither of those things should be happening either.

I can also tell you that when boys/men send dick pics to girls, they get shown to friends too. Girls have school fights, and bully each other for being fat/different/whatever the offence is.

Is that okay because it’s a girl/woman doing it? Of course it isn’t.

People, shouldn’t treat each other like shit. That’s the top and bottom of it for me. Accepting that involves accepting that sometimes women do that too.

Did you watch it properly? The main character said the victim was ‘flat’ but he thought she would give him a chance as she was ‘desperate’ after her nude photos were shared. This is extremely misogynistic, seeing girls as ‘easy’ and how dare they not give any man a chance if she’s down on her luck, as if she’s not allowed to have any standards. As if she should be flattered any man would look her way! He saw her as ‘less than’ after her photos were shared and therefore more likely to say yes to him. The blame is put on her, not the boys sharing the images in the first place.

The programme is about incel culture and male entitlement some men have unfortunately adopted due to certain online cultures.

Can someone please explain what the red pill/blue bill references are ? I'd rather ask here than google.

@marmitetoast5 It’s called negging. He thinks that she’s going to hear that and do stuff like start wearing push up bras/ stuff her bra/send more nudes where she looks more curvy etc in order to impress him and prove him wrong. A strategy so common that it has a name (and yes, girls do this too- dick size, number of gifts etc but I’ve not heard of influencers who make money out of “teaching” this )

People, shouldn’t treat each other like shit. That’s the top and bottom of it for me. Accepting that involves accepting that sometimes women do that too.

I get really frustrated with comments like this. They always crop up on threads discussing male violence against women.

Yes, of course women can behave badly. I don't think anyone would disagree. However, we don't have an epidemic of female violence against men and boys.

Toxic masculinity, incel culture and male violence against women and girls is a societal issue which urgently needs addressing. Cries of ' but women are shit too!' Is an unnecessary addition to the debate.

More like 3 women a week.

This post is tone deaf.

A light is finally being shone on how many women and girls are suffering violence and even death at the hands of men and the appalling, disturbing manosphere and you want to talk about how WOMEN need to change?

It didn’t take long did it? Rules of misogyny number 1: women are responsible for what men do.

How fucking depressing this thread is. One high profile opportunity to talk about male toxicity and incel culture and people say ‘well girls are vile too…’ jeez what hope do we have? 😞

Even in the nicest schools, the girls having a few boyfriends in a row are 'loose' and have a bad reputation, whilst the boys doing exactly the same are "studs' and all the boys want to be like them. I have challenged this so many times and the kids themselves cannot explain it to me why that is. And these are 'naice' kids.

The bottom line is that girls are held to a much higher standard of behaviour at all times. Boys aren"t. There is almost an expectation from nursery to teenage years that 'boys will be boys' and much behaviour is accepted as just 'what boys do'. And this is way before we even get to incel or toxic masculinity culture.

Quoting the whole thing because it needs repeating.

Look at the position of women in Iran and Afghanistan now. Look at photos from both countries in the 1970s.

Look at the men celebrating Trump's re-election with the 'Your Body, My Choice' slogan.

Look at Trump's anti-DEI direcrive removing photos of and references to women's participation in WWII and other historical events.

We cannot afford to be complacent.

And on the compulsory monogamy point, you may think that's only only a few extremists. But even people like Jordan Peterson at the most 'respectable' end of the manosphere have spoken in favour of this.

Originally The Matrix - Neo is offered the choice of 2 pills. One will let him go back to his ordanry life and forget all about the matrix and aliens controlling the world; the other unplugged him from the matrix so he can see the world as it really is and fight it.

The idea was adopted by the incel/manosphere movement as a metaphor for 'waking up' to the horrible oppression they say men face and how they need to take back control.

Men: create the word incel, themselves, as a badge of honour to their shitty world views and justify their hatred for and belief they are in all ways above women
OP: Can’t believe these women who are calling men Incels. It’s bullying. You can see why these men hate them so much, can’t you?

Mindblowing.

Yes sometimes people are shit. Men and women. Girls and boys.

But there’s a massive discrepancy in numbers , actual behaviour and reasoning.

You mentioned dick pics for example. Were those solicited?

Have you seen the everyonesinvited website? The horror of them having testimonials from hundreds of PRIMARY schools?

Have you seen the wecantconsenttothis website?

Have you done any actual reading and research, talked to any women that have been victims of male violence (many of them since childhood)? Have you listened to them? Have you actually bothered?

Have you “dipped your toe” into the manosphere to see exactly how much hate and anger and contempt those men have towards women?

Or did you just stop at people are shit and women do it too?