Teacher carrying 9yo into school.

[ChitterChatter1987]

My eldest daughter (Year 5) is becoming really tricky to get into school some days, particularly Mondays.
She has a male teacher for the first time this year, who she seems to get on well with and speaks positively about.She had specifically asked to have him despite often generally being abit more fearful of males than females.He is popular with kids and parents and is fairly young and laid back, quite playful and enthusiastic in his approach.

A couple of times he has come out when we have had issues getting her in recently and has verbally managed to persuade DD to go in by giving an incentive etc which has worked well, but today despite him trying this and offering good solutions to her worries, she just would not go in, and went outside the office reception and sat down refusing to move.
He suggested out of earshot for me to go as maybe me being there was making her more reluctant, which i agree was probably true as maybe then she thinks she might be able to come home.

I walked off up the path and left him negotiating with her outside as he had advised, however then looked back and saw him fireman carrying her into the building.
Now I totally get it's a hard sitiation knowing how to get her in,and appreciate he has a class to teach, so can't stand outside negotiating with her for ages, and there is a possibility she was okay with him lifting her in and it was a fun game (although I would be surprised as she isn't really a tactile child with anyone other than me and sometimes her dad and sister) If someone had done that with my 5yo, unless she was kicking and screaming in upset, I probably wouldn't think much of it tbh, but with her being older on the cusp of puberty, him being male, and also her having ASD and not liking physical touch, it just feels like it might be quite humiliating for her and abit forceful and inappropriate, despite it being meant as a playful gesture to get her to go in.
We always try to teach her body autonomy, that nobody should touch her including hugs etc without her wanting them to, so i just worry that this is going against that, especially with him being an adult male.
She is quite a young 9.5, and fairly small for her age, so not sure he would have done it otherwise, but despite that she is still the age she is.

My plan is I will speak to her later and see if she was okay with it or not, and if not ask for a meeting with school, asking them to not do it again and discussing alternative methods to get her into school.

What are others thoughts on this practice? If anyone else has experienced something similar, or has any ideas of alternative ways to get her into school i would be grateful for your input!

Our school wouldn't allow this unless she or someone else was in actual danger by refusing to come in at that time.

This ⬆️

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Going forward you will have to stay until you can get her into the classroom, no matter how long it takes.

"I'm quite well informed about strong headed children who don't want to do what they're told to when they're told to it...."

Exactly.

People who can't be bothered are taking away our children's precious educational resources and opportunities.

And a few years down the line, their children will be the ones with the extra time in the exams. By which stage they will have been joined by a bunch of opportunists who realise that the system is there to be gamed.

And a good proportion of that lot will then become the ones sitting at home and living off the rest of us.

You don't learn to climb mountains by going round them.

Wake up guys.

Thankyou for all your support, it means alot

How are people managing to game their child extra time in exams?

Unacceptable. I’d ask for a meeting with the school behaviour. Ask Google the same question and the appropriate legislation comes up.

I'm really surprised, but also saddened, to see that so many believe this is acceptable.

Op, your dd has autism and is experiencing EBSA, which is likely to get worse if this is how the school deals with it and i would urge you not to walk away from your dd if this happens again. I don't have any quick solutions for getting her across the threshold because it's tied up in her specific autism presentation, her specific environmental triggers and her individualised profile - most likely you are still learning all of this about her.

Those with absolutely no experience or understanding of this will miss the point entirely. This isn't a child who is choosing not to go into school, it's a child who is unable to for reasons that need investigating, understanding and acting upon.

Your daughter's ehcp is also likely insufficient for her actual level of need. I suspect she's on the lowest semh funding level, particularly if she is reasonably bright and not academically behind (yet). The school will unfortunately only take notice of it when it begins to deteriorate to the point where you're completely unable to leave the house, let alone get her into school, and it affects her attendance record.

I would ask for an urgent ehcp review now, because whatever support has been put in place isn't working. I would also pay for a private SALT report. Bright girls are often articulate, but may struggle enormously (and unnoticed) with receptive language, which so much of classroom learning is based on.

He's a brave man to do that, but really if you can't do it then what else do you expect to happen when all the other kids are in class waiting to learn?

It’s a wind up. It must be.

@ChitterChatter1987

Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

I despair at parents these days. Get a grip and either be grateful, or take her in on your own.

Absolutely not okay, I’m a teacher in a special school. We are absolutely not allowed to carry children just because they are refusing to go somewhere. It is a physical intervention/ use of force and should only be used as a last resort if there is risk of harm to self or others or significant property damage, carrying children should not be used to gain compliance. A child who is sat refusing to move is not causing enough disruption or at risk of harm so it would not warrant the use of force. The government policy around use of force applies to all schools. Lifting and carrying children is also likely to go against moving & handling policies unless a proper risk assessment into the use of lifting has been carried out.

If force is used this should be for the shortest time possible, so it may be reasonable to lift and carry a child to move them from a dangerous place (eg: lying in front of a busy door where they could be hit by someone coming through) but you only move them enough to move from harms way, you can’t then carry them through school to a more convenient place. You cannot lift and carry a child just because they are being non-compliant. The use of force/ physical intervention should also be recorded and communicated to parents. If you haven’t been informed of the fact the teacher used force then you need to flag it, carrying a child without reason is against policy and it is unlawful and would raise a safeguarding concern around that teachers conduct in my school.

@ChitterChatter1987 I work in an Alternative Provision.

Firstly, I would thank the teacher for his efforts in getting her in to class, but say that you dont want her carried in again. Id be surprised if he would to be honest.

Next, id be arranging a review with the school aboit these difficulties, and an actual plan formed, so it is clear what strategies will be used, and when these have been use unsuccessfully, what happens then, I.e you take her home and she completes school work at home (not a day off).

It is very important your daughter sees you and the school as the same team and a united front.

If school (and you) cannot ger her into class under the plans made, then more discussions are needed - soft starts, reduced timetable and work completed at home etc.

If needs cannot be met at school that is where AP comes in. We still have boundaries and rules, attendance and punctuality, expectations etc but its smaller groups etc so much more manageable and the staff are specially trained.

You need to be proactive now, not passive, or this will just get worse, and harder. All the best

It's not gaming,it's trying to create a level playing field. A child I see has deformed fingers, writing is hard for her. Typing is hard for her. She is a bright and tenacious young lady, who wants to do well in her exams like most children, but needs more time to get the same amount of writing on paper as a child with fully functioning hands.

Amen to this. So much ignorance on display and this baseless refrain of ‘to the detriment of others’. We have zero evidence there’s been any detriment to anyone else in this situation. Inclusive support to allow SEN kids to access learning does not automatically mean anyone else is being short-changed. So much punching down on this site - it’s infuriating. If you are lucky enough to not understand the situation OP and her daughter are dealing with, be grateful. No child wants to stand out, no child wants not to succeed at things their peers can do more easily. I cannot understand why some people are so poisonous toward parents and children like OP and her daughter.

Team teacher.
Ask your child firmly to walk into schoil like everyone else.
State that you do not want to have to call the firebrigade to carry her in when she has two perfectly healthy legs.

School is compulsory.
She copes once she is there.
Only being there gives her confidence to be there.

It seems a bit odd but personally I wouldnt ask her. Ultimately she needs to go to school and it is your responsibility to get her there. Teachers shouldnt have to cajole a child to go in. Their job is to teach. You need to be firmer with her now or it will get worse.

Carrying a child against their will counts as a use of force, here is the government guidance around use of force in school. There is a section around supporting students with SEND: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6943dad6501cdd438f4cf5aa/Restrictiveinterventionsincludinguseofreasonableforceinschools.pdf

To me it does not seem like this was a reasonable use of a physical intervention and you should certainly question this with the school, personally I would be setting up a meeting with the head and bringing the policy with me.

Ex teacher. I could have been sacked for that. We had endless insets about acceptable and unacceptable ways of dealing with children. Ideas came and went but the one thing we knew we could never do was manhandle a child into a classroom. No excuses. Never.

Maybe get a job as a teaching assistant or something? You might get a bit of insight into how disruptive it is for an entire class when one child is forever messing around refusing to go inside and let the teacher teach the rest of the class. I mean seriously, stop mollycoddling. You need to get your child into her class without all this messing around in the mornings - not making it about something else and making the teachers job even more difficult in the process.

Oh, I know.

My son will likely get extra time for his Year 6 SATs as well as possibly a scribe as that is how they currently do assessments with him.

From what I've discussed so far with his teacher and how it all works, it would be very difficult for a parent to 'game' the system.

@ChitterChatter1987 I mean this kindly, there is nothing to be gained from posting here. Please try the SEN boards where you will find other parents who have faced/ are facing what you are now. Aibu will continue to result in really unhelpful comments like "you're the parent, don't give her a choice" (because we've never thought of/ tried that before, right?)

Sorry, I meant to reply to the poster you were replying to, rather than you

No problem.