Reducing contact with parents when one denies years of harmful behaviour

[bpddaughterhelp]

Hi everyone,

Wondering if I can ask about your experiences with a parent with BPD (specifically a BPD mum and enabling dad). I’m increasingly sure that my mum has undiagnosed BPD or another Cluster B disorder (she certainly has many strong traits despite no formal diagnosis that I’m aware of).

My dad is absolutely resistant to recognising how her behaviour has affected us over decades. He minimises it, conveniently forgets it, pressures me to ‘leave the past in the past’, ‘build bridges’, ‘you’re too sensitive’, ‘you know what she’s like’ etc etc etc.

His most recent bout of ‘I don’t understand, have we done something to upset you?’ is because I’m trying to reduce contact with them - from every other week, for 10+ hours, in my home, which was just assumed by them and deeply uncomfortable for me, to once every three weeks, for a shorter time, either in a neutral location or at their house so that I can leave.

I just… don’t know what to do with this any more. In 2018, he actually said to me that he was worried that my mum’s behaviour would lead to me not wanting them to see my (then imagined, future) children, so why is he now claiming he doesn’t know why I’m reducing contact?

Where do I go from here? I am absolutely exhausted by trying to battle and manage this relationship. There is no actual relationship, there is only the constant struggle of trying to keep mum on an even keel and trying to convince my dad that yes it was that bad and yes he should have protected us, and of trying to protect my child from the same dynamics that were so damaging to me.

I’ve had therapy on and off for the best part of 10 years. It’s helped me to see so much more clearly the dysfunctional family dynamics at play here. But whenever I try to reduce contact, this is what happens.

I actually would be deeply deeply relieved to never see or hear from them again. I am so so done.

What do I do now? My dad said yesterday that there is ‘nothing recent that [he is] aware of’ that warrants me reducing contact. It’s like he has this wilful misunderstanding or amnesia. I have had this conversation with him repeatedly over the years. I explained (again) my experience and point of view and he’s left me on read.

Wtf do i do?

So sorry about your situation OP.

Personally I think you should go no contact with them. You are banging your head against a brick wall if you think you are going to ever change their viewpoint.
Put yourself first and accept they will never see things from your perspective
I don't say this lightly . I wish I had done this myself when my parents were alive. After they died I went no contact with the rest of my family and it greatly helped my mental health and self esteem.

Sorry you’ve experienced this too. Mentally I am just done with them. It is such an absolute headfuck.

The worst thing is I can already seetheir behaviour impacting on DS who’s not even 2. My parents are so deeply jealous of my ILs who see DS more (due to being geographically closer but also because they are mentally stable and secure). DS adores my ILs and sometimes has chatted about Grandma and Gramps in front of my parents. The atmosphere palpably changes - they tense, so then I brace as well, but DS has done absolutely nothing wrong. I absolutely refuse to subject him to the same dysfunctional system that damaged me so much.

i want to go NC at this stage but my dad just will not let me. They disregard my boundaries at every point. I feel utterly trapped and powerless.

I've been in a similar situation and I would encourage you do exactly what your dad suggested and leave the past in the past. There is literally no point in trying to bring the message home. My mother also struggles with selective amnesia. The thing is, it has no impact on our relationship whatsoever because we don't need to go round in circles comparing notes.
Your therapy helped you to see the patterns but what about dealing with emotions about it? I think that's where a lot of therapy fails with focusing on excavation work rather than moving on.
If you don't want to see them, you can stop seeing them. Nobody can tell you otherwise and you also don't need to engage in any discussion about it. I am not sure why you feel you need to justify it to them.
I now have a really nice calm relationship with my mum having accepted that I do not need to argue about the past, that she too had been affected by my father's behaviour and that it brings nothing to our relationship to continue trying to prove to each other who's version of events is correct.

I’m not trying to prove whose POV is right. My point is that it is not ‘the past’, my mum keeps on behaving as she always has and my dad always minimises the impact that has.

The only way I can have a nice calm relationship with them is to totally dissociate when I’m with them and then bury all of the difficult feelings I have afterwards, and subliminally teach DS that that’s how we deal with difficult people. I don’t want to teach him that.

I know I can’t make them understand how I see it, but I do want them to respect my decision when I tell them I can only manage reduced contact

No discussion necessary ime. Be less available..back away until you find the strength to block them..
Haven't seen my dm since 2012.
Df since 1998..

I guess I would like my dad to say that he understands my mum’s behaviour has never been ok and that he should have done more to protect us, but he’s never going to say that because he’s always prioritised her feelings and making us bend to them for an easier life

You can't change their behaviour, only your reaction to it. Sounds like they won't accept low contact as they'll just trample all over the boundaries you try and set. It may well be that you'll have to go NC completely and just point blank refuse. Easier said than done when you're used to capitulation from guilt! Good luck with whatever you decide.

I want to go NC at this stage but my dad just will not let me

In what way? Do they just turn up at your house and demand to be let in? It isn't just your mum who is abusive, your dad is too. He is controlling you.

Write your Dad a letter setting it all down. Stop the calls. If he persists in trying to contact you, write one final short note referring him to your previous letter.

I have a friend who dealt with a similar situation. She spent one afternoon shut in the back part of her house when they turned up and she wouldn’t let them in. Prior to that she replaced her low side gate with a tall solid wooden one with a lock on as in the past they had walked straight into her garden. Her neighbour messaged her about her parents standing on her drive. In the end the neighbour told them to leave or he’d call the police, but she was determined to see it through even if he hadn’t intervened. She refused to let them in to use the loo, as there was a nearby pub they could go to.

They can only continue to be a problem if you let them.

Dm tried contacting dc. I left a voice mail stating I would take legal advice unless it stopped. It stopped.

In what way are they not respecting it?
Do they show up announced at your house? Or is it that they try to make you justify your decision?
Unless they follow you around and dropping in on you unexpectedly, you just keep repeating "I can meet you on Saturday at 3pm in Betty's Cakes" and if they ask why they can't come to your house you say "it's not convenient for me".

Thank you. Yes, they will definitely just turn up. A few months ago they arranged with my sister to all come here without asking or checking with me first, my sister had even booked annual leave and at no stage did anyone think (or want) to check if I actually wanted them here.

When I was 23, my dad turned up on the first day of my PGCE to cry in his car about how I didn’t love them and how he was scared i wouldn’t let them see my future children.

he and my mum also manufactured a story about her MS diagnosis and led me to believe she was being diagnosed on a particular day when they wanted me to go to their home. It later transpired that she’d been diagnosed years prior to that, so not only was that withheld at the time, it was only revealed when it was useful for them in order to draw me back in.

It’s utterly utterly crazy-making

So what if they turn up though? Get a ring doorbell and don’t let them in.

You hold all the power not them. No way I’d let them affect a 2yo child like this either. They always go for the kids eventually they can’t help themselves.

Thank you. I feel completely powerless so I need to find that power and (for want of a better expression) step into it. I just can’t be bullied by them any more (and allow my son to see me being bullied)

You're never going to get what you want from him OP so stop expending your energy trying. He will never admit it - he knows deep down what you're saying is true but his coping mechanism is denial.

If you really want to go no contact, you are going to have to be firm and ride the wave of their push back. Firstly, I would write a letter saying that you are ceasing all contact for the foreseeable future to safeguard your own health and wellbeing. Be clear that you will not answer phone calls or texts and if they come to your home when you've expressly told them not to, you will not let them in. You will need to stand your ground and be prepared to report them for harassment if they persist.

I would also think about some counselling because no contact will be hard at first and you will have to fight all those old feelings of guilt and obligation. Keep telling yourself that your first obligation is to yourself and your child and what you need.

Can you go out for the day OP? Appreciate it’s not ideal but if they are just turning up and it’s causing you this amount of distress it might be a way of reinforcing that boundary in a way that directly impacts/inconveniences them.

I know more than I want about your sort of situation, lovely.

Firstly, YOU are the one who can change things. But it will take effort and it will be hard before it gets easier.

Firstly so why is he now claiming he doesn’t know why I’m reducing contact? Because he knows very well indeed why you are, but can't bear to admit it. If he did, he'd have to acknowledge that your mother's behaviour is awful and he hasnt done enough to help you. In fact, in order to keep things quiet, he expects you to sacrifice yourself .... and he cant admit that to himself.

Secondly you are doing the right thing. Your son needs, needs, needs you to protect him. I sometimes think untreated BPD/EUPD is one of the most damaging illnesses to grow up around because of the terrifying unpredictability and lack of limits and explosiveness. And the manipulation of young people who simply cannot resist it.

Thirdly, how? Very strong boundaries and grey rock. In a way, mentally put your parents in the category of unavoidable but very difficult customers. If your father acts as if he doesnt know why, it doesnt matter. "Im sorry you don't see it Dad, but no, you cant stay more than an hour".

If they insist on staying longer, then leave it longer before inviting them back and tell them why " last time I asked you over for an hour. You stayed for three. This isn't okay. If I ask you for an hour, thats how long you can stay" delivered in a level, non- confrontational, calm and non-negotiable tone.

Which leads to ... never, ever, ever get drawn into an argument. They are winning, if you do. You absolutely have to hold your boundaries. Don't defend yourself. Don't attack or deny. Just state what you want and what is available for them. If they start kicking off, disengage. Ask them to leave or if youre on the phone say that you will speak to them on such - a -day -such - a - time. (And keep your word - thats essential. Dealing with someone with untreated BPD is like dealing with an emotional toddler in an adults body - keep your boundaries, keep your word, say what you're going to do, do what you say)

When you start putting boundaries in, you will get an 'extinction burst' of worse - perhaps appalling - behaviour. This will either eventually pass, or you will end up NC. It depends on if your mother and her unhappy little helper can control herself long enough to accept what you do have to offer, instead of what she wants (which ime is everything, to suck you dry even quite inadvertantly).

Good luck, @bpddaughterhelp . I mean it. Untreated BPD is a terribly painful illness to live with, but it's sometimes a living hell for the people around. At least now there are treatments and the people who can walk that particular path and work on themselves are, imo, courageous beyond the common perception. BPD /EUPD arises for a reason and those reasons are never good.

But again, you ARE justified and right in putting boundaries in place. Post for support if you need it.

I just can't be bullied by them any more

I'm glad that you are now able to see that this is exactly what they are doing to you. They expect you to do as you are told. Stuff that for a game of soldiers. You are an adult and they can't make you do what they want any more. You are starting to come out of the FOG (fear, obligation, guilt) now. Keep going.

I think @whippersnapper55 's course of action is very much a possibility too, if it's what you want and need to do.

Your mum won't take it well and you might need an anti -harassment order in the end, but you ARE doing g the right thing in protecting your son. And yourself.

You DO have power here, lovely.

It’s not you. It’s not you. It’s not you.

don't be confused. There is no need. Hes not using some skilful trick. He just doesn’t want anyone to make him think about ‘it’ and will throw his relationship with you under the bus if that has to happen. Which he does every time he denies the obvious with no regard to the pain it causes you. Some people, although equally harmful through neglect and minimising etc , can appear saintly next to a more classically cruel person. They are not safer, they just have a nicer costume.

Thank you so so much. I’ll come back and reply properly later, but just wanted to say really truly thank you 🩷

Thank you. I’ve known about the FOG for such a long time but actually getting out of it is so hard

I totally agree. It’s just more of the same from him, more self preservation.

Think about how your parents behave towards you.

Then think about behaving like that towards your own child. You would never do it in a million years, would you? You'd do anything to protect your dc from it. So now's the time to protect yourself and prevent your parents from doing it to you.

Your parents are never likely to understand your decision to reduce contact, but you don't need them to understand, or agree. Don't waste time trying to explain your reasons. And if you decide to maintain some contact, have it in a public place where you can leave easily. Don't go to their home, don't have them in your home.