Reducing contact with parents when one denies years of harmful behaviour

[bpddaughterhelp]

Hi everyone,

Wondering if I can ask about your experiences with a parent with BPD (specifically a BPD mum and enabling dad). I’m increasingly sure that my mum has undiagnosed BPD or another Cluster B disorder (she certainly has many strong traits despite no formal diagnosis that I’m aware of).

My dad is absolutely resistant to recognising how her behaviour has affected us over decades. He minimises it, conveniently forgets it, pressures me to ‘leave the past in the past’, ‘build bridges’, ‘you’re too sensitive’, ‘you know what she’s like’ etc etc etc.

His most recent bout of ‘I don’t understand, have we done something to upset you?’ is because I’m trying to reduce contact with them - from every other week, for 10+ hours, in my home, which was just assumed by them and deeply uncomfortable for me, to once every three weeks, for a shorter time, either in a neutral location or at their house so that I can leave.

I just… don’t know what to do with this any more. In 2018, he actually said to me that he was worried that my mum’s behaviour would lead to me not wanting them to see my (then imagined, future) children, so why is he now claiming he doesn’t know why I’m reducing contact?

Where do I go from here? I am absolutely exhausted by trying to battle and manage this relationship. There is no actual relationship, there is only the constant struggle of trying to keep mum on an even keel and trying to convince my dad that yes it was that bad and yes he should have protected us, and of trying to protect my child from the same dynamics that were so damaging to me.

I’ve had therapy on and off for the best part of 10 years. It’s helped me to see so much more clearly the dysfunctional family dynamics at play here. But whenever I try to reduce contact, this is what happens.

I actually would be deeply deeply relieved to never see or hear from them again. I am so so done.

What do I do now? My dad said yesterday that there is ‘nothing recent that [he is] aware of’ that warrants me reducing contact. It’s like he has this wilful misunderstanding or amnesia. I have had this conversation with him repeatedly over the years. I explained (again) my experience and point of view and he’s left me on read.

Wtf do i do?

I mean that they escalate and ramp up the drama, emotional pressure, bombarding messages, a whole load of ‘woe is me’ stuff, start roping in other family members (they are not above getting my elderly grandparents involved to try and make me ‘see reason’).

Sometimes I think of it as trying to escape some kind of dictatorship. It’s a very weird, disorientating system to have grown up in and be trying to extricate yourself from.

I keep telling myself ‘their feelings are not my crisis/emergency’. I have to be present and stable/secure for DS, not pulled into their mind games.

You feel you owe your parents a relationship and you are also looking for validation that their treatment of you was real. You are hoping that they will not only acknowledge the abuse but learn from it and become the family you deserved.
That will never happen, they are all fighting against the truth so they can make you feel delusional so you give up and conform.
You can’t save your sister or your dad from your mum, they have both chosen to stand by her side and feed into the lunacy because it’s much harder to stand up and speak the truth.
The only way to end this crazy making is to go NC and protect your little family. You have the choice to walk away or suck it up, if you pick the former don’t try to explain your reasons as that’s how they hook you back. Get a ring doorbell and if they come to your door you tell them to leave and block all of them on social media. Change your landline number and mobile phone and if you see them when you’re out just walk away as trying to explain or reasoning with crazy making people never work it just infuriates you or twist you in knots with the guilt they throw at you. Your son deserves a family who won’t manipulate him or fear the truth will make him unlovable. He won’t have to walk on eggshells or be abused for being himself.

🫶🏻 my turning point was actually triggered by a comment my (very lovely) friend made when I was having a bit of a rant about my Mum.
She said (completely innocently) “… just think about everything your Mum has done for you”
In that moment, I did just that and it dawned on me that she’d done absolutely nothing for me. In my head, I had made more of her qualities as a mother than there actually were. And that was my turning point and my permission to myself to call her out (to myself) on her flaws and actions instead of accepting her line which was always “I did my best” … and wasn’t good enough.
Just because they’re your parents, you don’t owe them anything. There is no obligation and as they age it will only get worse when they need care.

Youre absolutely right, their feelings are not your crisis. 100%.

Sometimes I think of it as trying to escape some kind of dictatorship. It’s a very weird, disorientating system to have grown up in and be trying to extricate yourself from.

It is a dictatorship, and again, people who have reasonably normal parents really, really don't get it. My bio. Mother was like an all-engulfing sun who licked out arms to gather everyone nearby to consume them. As she didn't bring me up, Im by far the least affected by her although its taken years of coming to terms with what she was like. And I know some of her background, and can pity her, because I have distance.

Do you have a counsellor / therapist who you can talk to? One who is trained in handling untreated BPD? I think you mentioned someone upthread. It really helps to be able to talk to someone face to face who can help anchor your sense of reality when faced with the overwhelming unreasonableness of someone with untreated BPD.

Also, thank you for the kind words - im glad that something goods come out of my difficult experience!

Going NC with my abusive mother was the best thing I ever did for myself. My MH improved dramatically and my confidence has soared.

Only you know if you’re ready.

Dear OP,
there is such lovely advice on this thread - so just know that are aren’t alone and that other people understand what you are saying and going through.
You sound like you have done your level best to get to grips with what is going on and have tried to deal with it in a rational and sensible way.
There will be a confrontation, or maybe several confrontations as you find your boundaries and words (and start to keep them). You know there will be an ‘extinction event’ blow up, probably at the worst possible time for you. We all want to have the perfect conversation but the reality of it is that it may take a few increasingly horrible events before you find your ‘absolute steel’. Because you are clearly a thoughtful and considerate person.
It may be that your family cut you off before you are 💯% ready for it.
Be prepared for the pain alongside the relief. Even when you are doing the right thing for you and your family there will be a part of you that wishes things were otherwise. And that’s ok. You can’t talk to people whose survival depends on not hearing you.
Good luck, and iIt is heartening to read the incredibly thoughtful posts others have made.

Imagine the future, your son is about 8 and has come to you very upset because something was said to him that was extremely hurtful. You go round, have it out with them and they say he is a liar and then they slag him off and tell him he is deliberately trying to cause trouble. He’s very confused and upset, he learns telling the truth makes him a bad person as he was blamed for all the upset it caused. So to keep the peace next time they do something nasty instead of opening up to you he keeps his pain inside. He starts to believe in order to keep everyone happy and not be blamed he has to deny the truth and pretend it never happened as that’s what his grandad and auntie tells him. His mum though is like a dog with a bone, she keeps asking him to tell her the truth, she says she knows he’s upset with something that happened when he was at my grandparents that he won’t be in trouble but that’s a lie because his grandparents will be so angry at him and he’s afraid of them making him feel bad. At school they teach you to always tell the truth but his family, his safety net, most of them treat the truth like it’s vermin and they make him feel he’s unlovable.
I know you don’t want that for your child, for them to strip his self esteem, to use rage or crazy making tactics on him to conform. You have to understand exactly why you go NC with them so when you feel so wracked with guilt at times when you start doubting yourself it gives you strength to protect yourself and child.

Did you need to tell them that you wanted to reduce contact? How about leaving it for a few weeks, letting the normal pattern continue (which I know will be hard), then book something, anything, for the week that you should see them and say "Oh, I won't be home on X date. I have something on. I'll come and visit you on <following week>." You'll have to make sure you're out for each of the weeks where the fortnight falls for a while, but hopefully it will become the new normal.

If and when you go NC tell your DH that they are likely to try to drag him into it, tell him to just message back saying sorry I’m not getting involved. If they become abusive or a nuisance he blocks them. If they knock on the door he speaks to them through ring doorbell and tells them he won’t get involved and ignores any attempt from them to draw him in. He stands firm with you to protect his family because in their eyes they will be prepared to break you. Get a plaque made that love isn’t breaking one’s spirit in order to enslave! Make it your mantra

It probably wasn’t a good idea, but I tried to be neutral about it when my dad messaged to say they’d be up this week. I said that I’d come down and see them the following week instead, and that’s when he asked if there was something they’d done to upset me, at which point I said I wasn’t finding fortnightly visits manageable, and ultimately why, as dad kept pressing.

In hindsight, it was too much information because that’s what gives them stuff they can decide to fight against, isn’t it? It gives them what they think is wiggle room to negotiate the boundary. I just wish they were normal.

Sounds like my entire childhood and most of my adult life.
I went NC in the end.
Best decision I ever made.
Yes it’s hard but it’s also peaceful.

Here are the messages, after I’d suggested the date next week instead of this week:

Dad: That’s a month since we’ll have seen [DS]. He changes so much. Is everything ok ?
Have we upset you somehow ?

Me: No, it will have been 3 weeks. I find it very hard seeing mum so often, especially when we’re supposed to act as though everything’s fine and nobody has ever taken accountability for how she’s behaved over the last 30 years. I’m really fed up of always being the one in the wrong or the difficult one when none of it was my fault, and since DS it’s become very hard to just pretend it’s all fine when I would never behave like that towards him. Seeing mum every other week just isn’t manageable for me

Dad: I know what you said years ago but surely that was then. There is nothing recent that I know of. We were visiting you every two weeks, taking DS swimming etc. Then suddenly everything changed. I find it very difficult.

Me: I find it very difficult too. I didn’t know how to say that I was finding every two weeks too much, especially when it was such long days and you stayed past his bedtime even when I’d asked you not to. I don’t feel comfortable mum being with DS when I’m not there. I really wanted to try because I hate making people unhappy but I found it too hard. It’s not a case of ‘that was then’ when it’s been going on forever and all anyone ever does is pretend it’s not happening. When I was pregnant, mum told everyone I hadn’t told you when the scan date was, which wasn’t true, but you said you didn’t remember. When she told me before DS was born that she was going to ‘hijack’ him from nursery, you told me I was being too sensitive. So I’ve been finding it very very hard too for a really long time. I’m really sorry that it’s not different

Which in hindsight is way too much of what they see as ‘ammo’, I think. I made the mistake (again) of wanting to make my dad understand and to make him see my POV and what it’s been like having to exist in and try to navigate this crazy emotional system they’ve built. It was never going to work.

Yes, if they manage to draw you into a discussion or justifying yourself, they've won a battle.

But as you get used to it, you'll get getter at it

" no, not at all Dad, but Ive got a lot on. See you next week at your place"

And get that ringtone doorbell and practise NOT ANSWERING IT OR THE PHONE. Get back to them later at your convenience .. "oh, you came? That's a pity, I told you it wasn't possible". Keep your tone neutral, light.

We allow the phone to rule our lives. Nothing actually says we have to pick up a call or text immediately.

Lovely OP, you will never make your dad understand, because not only is he your mother's enabler, he is her accomplice. Shining the light on his behaviour will not result in an apology, acknowledgement or change, because their system is so dysfunctional, it cannot be fixed.

I grew up around some unpleasant people, possibly one BPD relative and the only way I found peace was by going NC with the former, and LC with the latter (no contact just isn't feasible in the current situation, and I can tolerate a dose of crazy every 12 months or so).

You are already miles ahead in finding your power because you recognise this is not something you want to expose your son to. I agree with PP about getting a Ring doorbell, and it might be worth looking into a dual sim so that you can retain your number for the family and dip in and out when it suits (for now) and supportive people on another.

Just read your last post ....Im afraid you have given them ammunition yes. Just have to dodge the bullets now - you can!

You are a grown adult with your own child and it's okay for you to decide if / how often you see your parents.

It is very, very, very hard to let go of wanting to be " seen" and understood by our parents, who after all are supposed to be our biggest cheerleaders. Especially if one is (apparently) more reasonable. But ... it will never work, lovely. Not with the parents wou were landed with.

@ReleaseTheDucksOfWar @LeebLeefuhLurve you’re both right, of course. I should have known that it wasn’t going to result in him going ‘oh of course, I can see it’s been really hard for you and we’ll give you a bit more space’. Instead he’s told mum and is unleashing the madness on me again. Of course he was never going to protect me, he never has. It’s so disappointing but it shouldn’t be surprising at all.

What I see in your response to your dad's five-word question is a long answer, trying to explain. A short one is better, next time. " it's only been three and I have a lot on, Im sure you understand".

Don't beat yourself up about the extra information and for trying to get some very basic, very human understanding. Seeking approval and understanding from our parents, despite having been shown time and time again that they are not those sorts of people, is hardwired into most of us, especially those who've had difficult parents.

My father was a lovely man ... who was 100% thoroughly my mother's enabler in her constant nastiness, criticism, and cruelty. He would make excuses for her, such that I would be the bad one for daring to be upset at her latest cruelty when of course I should be much more understanding given x, y, and z. Being raised like this turned me into such a people pleaser, someone who couldn't deal with people not agreeing with me/ liking me etc. I had been taught - by both my parents, including my father the enabler - that I was only valuable/lovable if I let bad behaviour go. I am very low contact with my mother now, my father has passed away, and have begun to heal. I wish you strength and peace, OP.

He is not going to do that. He is from a different era with a different perspective on relationships, family and support. He took his marriage vow seriously and you should respect him for that.

Do what you want OP, but I find it disappointing and disrespectful of you to want to cut them off.
you have had therapy, you understand it, you recognise it, so you can compartmentalise that.

and your days no doubt needs your support, and is asking for it without saying so. Be kind.

If the madness has been unleashed, hold on, @bpddaughterhelp

It will get worse before it gets better, but you can do this.

Expect the flying monkeys soon .... sister, relatives, mutual friends. Its worth thinking up a short but sweet message " mum's not seeing how much I have on with son, masters, work, and Peter's new job. Of course we make room for her, but it can't be quite at the level she's wanting at the moment"

This happened to me. It was having my own kids and realising that I had to protect them that made me go no contact. I reckon it’s quite common. You see how kids are meant be raised and grieve all over again for how you were treated/still are treated.

How to heal from emotionally immature parents is a great book and might help you

I don’t respect him for not protecting his children from emotional abuse by his wife and their mother, no.

i find it curious that you’re disappointed by a stranger’s relationship with her parents. If you’d experienced the last 30-odd years alongside me, maybe you’d see it differently.

I don’t think it’s OK to say ‘you’ve had therapy, now put up and shut up, let the old patterns resume around you and, by extension, your son’. It’s not OK that they’re perpetuating this cycle of dysfunction towards him and it is my responsibility to protect my innocent child from this kind of behaviour, just as it was my dad’s responsibility to protect us.

I’ve been dealing with this my whole life. I’ve had my mum crying all over me, begging me to tell her I loved her, at which point she stopped crying, looked me dead in the eye and said ‘I know you hate me’. My very earliest memory is of sitting on the stairs screaming ‘mummy mummy mummy’ through the bannisters until I felt physically sick and being completely ignored.

He probably does need support, he is in an abusive marriage. But I cannot be the one to give that to him if he’s going to keep trying to draw me into the same old patterns.

@Tortephant it's a low thing to encourage a woman to become a doormat.

Where is the father's kindness? It's a 19th century author, Rev George McDonald, respected by Dickens and Thackery, who said " It's the parents who have done the least to earn loyalty who demand it the most"

Is OP's mum on the thread?