Reducing contact with parents when one denies years of harmful behaviour

[bpddaughterhelp]

Hi everyone,

Wondering if I can ask about your experiences with a parent with BPD (specifically a BPD mum and enabling dad). I’m increasingly sure that my mum has undiagnosed BPD or another Cluster B disorder (she certainly has many strong traits despite no formal diagnosis that I’m aware of).

My dad is absolutely resistant to recognising how her behaviour has affected us over decades. He minimises it, conveniently forgets it, pressures me to ‘leave the past in the past’, ‘build bridges’, ‘you’re too sensitive’, ‘you know what she’s like’ etc etc etc.

His most recent bout of ‘I don’t understand, have we done something to upset you?’ is because I’m trying to reduce contact with them - from every other week, for 10+ hours, in my home, which was just assumed by them and deeply uncomfortable for me, to once every three weeks, for a shorter time, either in a neutral location or at their house so that I can leave.

I just… don’t know what to do with this any more. In 2018, he actually said to me that he was worried that my mum’s behaviour would lead to me not wanting them to see my (then imagined, future) children, so why is he now claiming he doesn’t know why I’m reducing contact?

Where do I go from here? I am absolutely exhausted by trying to battle and manage this relationship. There is no actual relationship, there is only the constant struggle of trying to keep mum on an even keel and trying to convince my dad that yes it was that bad and yes he should have protected us, and of trying to protect my child from the same dynamics that were so damaging to me.

I’ve had therapy on and off for the best part of 10 years. It’s helped me to see so much more clearly the dysfunctional family dynamics at play here. But whenever I try to reduce contact, this is what happens.

I actually would be deeply deeply relieved to never see or hear from them again. I am so so done.

What do I do now? My dad said yesterday that there is ‘nothing recent that [he is] aware of’ that warrants me reducing contact. It’s like he has this wilful misunderstanding or amnesia. I have had this conversation with him repeatedly over the years. I explained (again) my experience and point of view and he’s left me on read.

Wtf do i do?

Just another voice offering support op. I am really sorry you are going through this shit. As others have said, they won’t change. They don’t get it, and they won’t. You can’t change them, only yourself. Hopefully having your son is helping you be strong, you just cannot let these toxic people (for that is what they both are) damage your child. You need, for his sake and yours, to go NC. Get a ring door bell. Stop engaging. Watch out for flying monkeys - when they can’t get at you they will try to get others to guilt you. It won’t be easy at first, you’ve had a lifetime of this. But it will get easier. And will be worth it.

i want to go NC at this stage but my dad just will not let me. They disregard my boundaries at every point. I feel utterly trapped and powerless.

If you really want to go NC, it can be done.

This is how it goes;
. You block them on your phone, or change your phone number, and change your email address.
. You get a chain on your door and a video doorbell, and don't answer the door if they come round. Keep the curtains closed. If they bang on the windows, ignore them. If they stay for more than about 20 minutes banging, log a call with the police that they are harassing you. Repeat as necessary.
. Then your sister will get involved on their behalf, harassing you and guilt-tripping you to get in touch with them. You may also need to block and go NC with her.
. Then any other family members will be roped in (these are called on MN 'flying monkeys' after the film The Wizard of Oz - you may already know this). You may need to block and go NC with most of your extended family.
. They may put letters or greeting cards through your letterbox, which you should bin unopened.
. They may get a solicitor to send a letter threatening legal action - this will be bullshit, as they have no rights to see your or your DC.
. Friends will have no clue why you are doing this and will judge you harshly, either you drop them as friends or you try to explain and if they still persist in judging you then you drop them.
. Then you get a message (that has somehow got through your defensive wall) that one of them is in A&E with a suspected heart-attack or similar, and you get told you really should go and see them ASAP. This is 99% likely to be manipulative bullshit.
. One of them may even be admitted to hospital, and you will get pressured to go and see them 'before it is too late'. This is also 99% likely to be manipulative bullshit.

Ultimately, you have to take the risk that one or both of them will die without you going to see them, and you need to be totally fine with that outcome.

Are you ready for this?

One of my colleagues mother told her the dad had a stroke to get her attention.

Bonkers.

My mil abused my dh while he was end of life by refusing to give food fluids and most importantly painkillers but still tells everyone she has no idea why I don’t talk to her now, these people are not right in the head.

Jesus that's cruel @IcyTaupeOrca I hope you were able to help your husband.

So sorry for your loss, @IcyTaupeOrca 🩷💐

So just don’t engage. Block their numbers. They can only communicate with you if you let them.

My parents were similar except my dad never even tried to defend my mums behaviour, he just put up with it.
As soon as I left school I got a job and left home to get away from my mum. She didn't like that at all. Still tried to manipulate me, guilt me and continue to try to control me.
Like you I tried for years to reason with her, with periods of appeasment, ignoring or excusing her. I can't to this day recall what the final straw was. But we had a furious row, I didn't back down, and left. That was the end. I was free. Rarely spoke again. My mental health improved immensely.
I used to feel sorry for my dad. Then I realised he had done nothing to protect me from her. They're both dead now.

OP, I've read the whole thread and think you are wasting your time and energy trying to understand or reason with them.
Sometimes you just have to drop the rope. 💐

They may very well be pondering something along those lines, but when you consider their arse-about-face thinking, they'd be expecting you to make those repairs. All along they will have believed it is you who's the problem, so naturally they won't be looking at themselves in the mirror and wanting to make reparations for what they did. Quite the reverse.

This. Why is it disrepectful for a victim to protect themselves from further abuse?

The 'have we upset you?' is so manipulative, isn't it? I wonder what they'd do if OP actually responded with 'well yes, actually you have.'

Yep, this is it, it’s The Script.

Op the perks of being Grown Up is making your own choices and decisions.

Give yourself permission to fuck them all off. They really have no power over you.

Been there, done that, got the T shirt.

Have a separate phone for their messages/calls. Leave it on silent in a drawer and deal with it when you have the emotional energy to do so. Get a different number for the rest of your life.

Get a Ring doorbell, some form of blinds/curtains at your front window and do not answer the door if they turn up.

You owe them NOTHING. They have spent years minimising the consequences of their actions and you've been enabling them to. So you stop. Take the control, deal with them how and when you are able to, and give nothing in return. Meeting them on neutral ground ie a park or cafe for an hour once a month is plenty, and if they use that time to berate you, then you say "this isn't what I wanted to meet up with you to hear", and walk off.

I spent so many years trying to be the perfect daughter to make Mum love me as much as my golden child sister and it was never going to happen. So I manage minimum contact with mum, zero contact with sister and my life is so much better for it.

This is exactly what you have to do, and exactly what will happen, when/if you go NC.

All of this.

I went NC with my (likely NPD) father, after a last straw event when my first child was 3, and this is how it played out.

I have a few other things to add.

First, the guilt and grief of NC a parent can be enormous at first. For me, it felt like I was breaking a sacred covenant, it felt viscerally, primally wrong, like an abomination. It felt like I was the one who was at fault. Because I felt responsible for him (parentified), I also worried for him, who was going to look after him? I ruminated endlessly. I walked for hours with the dog at night, talking to myself, trying to manage and process the emotional pain. And the emotional pain literally caused physical pain, stomach pain, to the point I got tests, fearing I had cancer. All clear, it was "just" stress.

Second, the pain dwindles. After a year, I had stopped thinking about my father. After 5 years, I realised that I hadn't thought of him for years. After 10 years, I came across some emails I had written to myself in that first grieving year. I read them silently, shaken. And then I mentally embraced that struggling and sorrowful younger me. I thanked her - and still thank her - for her courage and resoluteness. Due to her, my and my children's and my H's lives are free of the emotional violence, chaos, and destruction that is my father.

Third, I think therapy would have helped a lot. Maybe it would have sped up the process a bit, or made it less painful.

Fourth, it's best to not announce NC or discuss anything further with your parents and any likely flying monkeys. All this does is pointlessly trigger the NC person. People like your mother and my father have an echoing, viciously grasping need to be centralised, their existence authenticated. There is no point in activating their fear and angry defences with something they can focus their energy on.

Fifth, if NC sounds too drastic, you can try gray rock. Pull back, steadily reduce contact, visit them for an hour once every 3, or 6, or 12 months (whatever you can tolerate), never let them on your territory again, make excuses, lie through your teeth if necessary, ruthlessly change the subject. Be bland, boring, busy. "No, everything is fine, just busy." NEVER get sucked into (i) explaining yourself again, (ii) thinking that if you find the magical words *this time they'll finally understand, and (iii) - this is hard - allowing their genuine emotional pain (because they can't feed on you anymore) to sway you from your course.

In my case, straight out NC was the only possible avenue. It was bloody excruciating. But ultimately, it was completely worth it.

Today, I view my father - who is still alive at 90 - with distant compassion. I know why he became like he was. I wish him well. But I don't want him in my life. We can't choose our parents. But we CAN choose who is in our kids' lives, and I chose to exclude from my kids' lives my ruinous mean father. I broke the chain, and I'm glad I did.

Louise, what a painful - excruciating - time you had of it. I'm glad you found peace of mind and heart after that

Thank you @ReleaseTheDucksOfWar

@LouiseMadetheBestBroccoliPasta, I’m glad you found peace too. I can totally empathise with what you say about understanding why our families are like they are and having compassion for that, but at the same time not wanting that chaos and drama and dysfunction in our lives.

Just musing on a whole load of other bits and pieces coming up for me at the moment, especially around my dad’s ‘managing’ of mum and her feelings.

I had a MMC around Christmas 2023 and had to have surgery for it. Obviously it was a really emotional, vulnerable time for me, and it was my first pregnancy as well. My dad phoned me the day after the surgery and I (stupidly - have I not learned?) thought that he might actually ask how I was doing and maybe offer support or just some kind words etc. What he actually rang for was to ask me to ‘keep Mum in the loop’, i.e. she clearly felt she hadn’t been given enough information (because that’s what she actually wants - she feels entitled to have info about our lives) and was presumably kicking off to him about it.

When I did cave and go to see them two days later, her idea of being supportive or whatever was to say ‘oh, so it HAD died, then?’

Since having DS, when they come to visit, my dad will spend the time taking lots of pictures of DS on my mum’s lap etc, then post them to the family group chat. Often he’ll wait for me to leave the room before he takes the photos, like he’s doing it furtively. I can count on one hand the pictures he’s taken of me with DS, probably with fingers to spare.

DS’ first boxing day, my parents were here and I saw dad taking a picture of me and DS and I thought ‘aww, this will be a lovely one to have’, because DS was smiling up at me. When he posted his pictures to the group chat - he’d zoomed right in on DS’ face and completely cropped me out. Sounds petty but I was really gutted about that.