Reducing contact with parents when one denies years of harmful behaviour

[bpddaughterhelp]

Hi everyone,

Wondering if I can ask about your experiences with a parent with BPD (specifically a BPD mum and enabling dad). I’m increasingly sure that my mum has undiagnosed BPD or another Cluster B disorder (she certainly has many strong traits despite no formal diagnosis that I’m aware of).

My dad is absolutely resistant to recognising how her behaviour has affected us over decades. He minimises it, conveniently forgets it, pressures me to ‘leave the past in the past’, ‘build bridges’, ‘you’re too sensitive’, ‘you know what she’s like’ etc etc etc.

His most recent bout of ‘I don’t understand, have we done something to upset you?’ is because I’m trying to reduce contact with them - from every other week, for 10+ hours, in my home, which was just assumed by them and deeply uncomfortable for me, to once every three weeks, for a shorter time, either in a neutral location or at their house so that I can leave.

I just… don’t know what to do with this any more. In 2018, he actually said to me that he was worried that my mum’s behaviour would lead to me not wanting them to see my (then imagined, future) children, so why is he now claiming he doesn’t know why I’m reducing contact?

Where do I go from here? I am absolutely exhausted by trying to battle and manage this relationship. There is no actual relationship, there is only the constant struggle of trying to keep mum on an even keel and trying to convince my dad that yes it was that bad and yes he should have protected us, and of trying to protect my child from the same dynamics that were so damaging to me.

I’ve had therapy on and off for the best part of 10 years. It’s helped me to see so much more clearly the dysfunctional family dynamics at play here. But whenever I try to reduce contact, this is what happens.

I actually would be deeply deeply relieved to never see or hear from them again. I am so so done.

What do I do now? My dad said yesterday that there is ‘nothing recent that [he is] aware of’ that warrants me reducing contact. It’s like he has this wilful misunderstanding or amnesia. I have had this conversation with him repeatedly over the years. I explained (again) my experience and point of view and he’s left me on read.

Wtf do i do?

Ring doorbell. Keep your doors locked. Ignore.
Block their phone numbers. .
I once hid behind a sofa avoiding 2 awful women I'd once called friends. Felt very good when they left having no gotten into my home!!

Good grief! May I ask what the story there was?
Clearly a good thing you shed them!

You say that your dad won't let you go no contact. How can he stop you if you are determined to do this? If you block him from everything, would he turn up on your doorstep?

Your dad is as bad as your mum because he enables her behaviour.

Somebody pointed out to me recently that you can not go 'no contact' with someone to try and break a generational curse and expect the cursed to agree with you. They won't - their lives are focused on maintaining the cycle (and control) so are never going to agree with or accept the new boundaries.

It was seeing the effect of the toxic parent on my own children that was the straw that broke the camels back and protecting them was absolutely the right thing to do.

Can your husband support you here? Be a gatekeeper for you even? Your parents will hate him, but that actually doesnt matter.

Is your sister another victim or is she an enabler, or possibly both?

If you write and tell them that you are going no contact for reasons that they are aware of and they ignore this and still try and contact you by turning up on your doorstep, you could apply for a non-molestation order.

Now that you have a child, the cycle of abuse must stop right now, otherwise they will try and pull your son into their disfunctional fantasy world. They are already reacting negatively to your son chatting about his other grandparents and soon they will be looking for ways to punish him or to punish you for encouraging him to have a close relationship with your PILs.

They are both utterly toxic and dangerous.

As someone on a similar thread said, your dad is just as abusive. The bit about crying in your first day is manipulative and he has watched your mother’s abuse and allowed it.

please go NC and stick to it as you have a son that’s being affected now.

@AllTheToddlers her father has colluded in the abuse and is part of it, even if he seems superficially the more rational one.

The thing about the MS diagnosis, hiding it it and then using it to coerce the OP into doing what they want, is chilling (and familiar).

I’ve experienced similar. My parents are weird to put it mildly. They are on some spectrum somewhere or a few spectra perhaps but definitely have significant narcissistic traits among their other issues.

I just ended it. I stopped trying to explain. No one listens to over explaining anyway but these types particularly use it to pick holes in your thinking.

Just say no to them and mean it. Stop with the drop ins, stop with the big explanations.

Just “no sorry that doesn’t work for me.”

He won't OP. The whole point is they can't see how you experience this. You need to say that this is all you are able to do , and stick to it, and walk away each they put pressure on.

My sister is definitely also a victim of mum’s behaviour. Just off the top of my head, mum behaved sexually inappropriately towards her at the age of around 7 or so, and told her she looked great and so much slimmer at around 11 or 12 maybe when she’d had a horrible vomiting bug.

But I think I experience my sister now as becoming another enabler who expects me to fall in line with how the family system has always operated and I just can’t do it any more.

She said before DS was born when I wanted to cut contact with my parents for my mental health that people can change and be much better grandparents than they were parents. And lo and behold, here they are being absolutely no better. Who’d have thought it?

My sister is definitely also a victim of mum’s behaviour. Just off the top of my head, mum behaved sexually inappropriately towards her at the age of around 7 or so

Yes, I observed this too. Absolutely creepy as all fuck.

Social Services don't do anything though.

I had the same ,my dad a coward,my mum awful ,don't take in into your adult life ,do what you have to ,to protect yourself.

OP, you need to stop worrying about your parents, and concentrate on your DC. What is in his best interests? It’s most certainly not somehow being made to feel that it’s not OK to talk about his other grandparents, or have your parents sucking in their cheeks every time he mentions them. What do you want to do, OP? What would your ideal relationship with your DPs look like? Because the only person who will bring this about is you. If you want to go NC, do it. If you only want to see them every three weeks at a neutral venue, then say, “I thought it would be nice to go to …. next week.” If DPs resist and say they want to come to yours, just say, “Sorry, that doesn’t work for me” - and repeat ad nauseam. You are going to have to dig your heels in, OP, because they will try to push against any restraints you put in place, so every time, just think of DS and what you want for him and what’s in his best interests. Good luck!

Sorry so much of this is familiar to you too. At the same time, it’s really validating to hear someone else call this chilling.

I quite often wonder if they actually discussed it beforehand - I think they must have done, that couldn’t just have happened organically. And so how did the conversation go? ‘OP is withdrawing from us and we want her closer again - shall we pretend you’re about to be diagnosed with the MS you’ve had for years and we’ve kept secret, so she feels pressured to be here?’ Fuck knows what goes on in their heads.

She didn't bring me up - to my absolute heartfelt gratitude. She thought I was angry with her for giving me up for adoption, I never admitted that I was profoundly glad she had.

About communicating about MS - if your parents are anything like mine was, it might have been more ad hoc. They won't have mentioned the diagnosis as a power thing - keeping you in ignorance - and then decided, if it looked like you were falling out of line, that it was the time to use it. Knowledge is power.

I think with my bio. mother, she had had a terrible upbringing herself and been pushed from pillar to post, with a great deal of abuse and outright cruelty at times. She felt powerless and tried to govern her life to feel safe, and weirdly enough, for the best as she saw it for her children.

She was so damaged and damaging though that any perceived injury to her pride or ego released a savage lion, and that took over. over the years the perceived injury grew and grew until any 'No' was an attack on her. I once refused to go down for the 3rd time to get her a slice of lemon for her gin and tonic and in the ensuing row she literally had her hands round my throat trying to throttle me, and this was mild compared to some of her behaviour. Many of the chairs had repeated knife marks on the back of them when she'd brought a cutting knife down on them. Over the years all sense of proportion was lost; early on she saw that there are limits to behaviour, but as time when on anything would go. The stories that my siblings could tell ... People who haven't seen it have no conception of what it's like living with someone with untreated BPD.

Her husband was afraid of her and was catastrophically passive aggressive to boot, so if she had a good point he would refuse to do whatever it was, but would also not stand up to her when she very badly needed someone to say No. Her only hope was a partner who both supported her when she needed it, and put limits in when she needed those. She didn't have one of those partners.

I suspect that in your parents' case your mother has over the years dominated your father until he has become her errand boy and assistant. It's tragic to observe, but after a certain point (and that point comes really quite early on) nothing can be done.

Has your mother ever engaged in treatment? Treatment can and for many people with the diagnosis of BPD/EUPD does make all the difference.

I’m so sorry to hear what you went through. 💐

I suggested years ago that she should try some counselling (when she raged and raged that I’d moved 30 mins from my uni town aged 23-ish to live nearer to my then-boyfriend/now-husband and start teacher training).

She allegedly went to the counsellor at the primary school where she was chair of governors, and then I received an email to say that the counsellor had told her about her own mum who had sadly died, and my mum implied that she might walk in front of a lorry tomorrow and die and then I’d be sorry I hadn’t spent more time with her.

All this to say that I don’t think she would engage with any treatment or cooperate for diagnosis. I don’t think she sees her behaviour as a problem because everyone’s always organised themselves/the family around making things ‘ok’ (as ok as they can be) for her.

She allegedly went to the counsellor at the primary school where she was chair of governors, and then I received an email to say that the counsellor had told her about her own mum who had sadly died, and my mum implied that she might walk in front of a lorry tomorrow and die and then I’d be sorry I hadn’t spent more time with her.

Yes, that's a very very bad sign.

I really do think the best thing you can do is remove yourself and your son from her orbit. What does your husband think? will he help/support you? A MiL like the one he's got can't be easy.

my mum implied that she might walk in front of a lorry tomorrow and die and then I’d be sorry I hadn’t spent more time with her.

When my bio. mother pulled this sort of shit which she did regularly, it worked at first. Then the effect wore off and I became immune. Finally a little cold voice in the back of my head developed that answered her back silently "... you think?"

Women like your mother cannot do relationships at all so indeed need a willing enabler to help, step forward your dad. He is both her enabler and secondary abuser. He has indeed thrown you under the bus out of self preservation and want of a quiet life, truly a weak man.

People like this are not worth bothering about, Adopt the GoSo approach - get out and stay out. Your child does not warrant such malign influence in his life either. If they are too toxic/batshit for YOU to deal with, it’s the SAME deal for your child too. Do read the website called Out of the FOG and have a read of the current Well we took you to Stately Homed thread on these Relationships pages.

If you write them a letter do not send it. It will be seen by them as an attack no matter how carefully you word it and they will react accordingly. You will need to grieve for the relationship you should have had rather than the one you actually got.

Received a message from my mum last night saying ‘[OP] I love you xx please talk to me if you can xx here for you xx’

Just… ugh. This is exactly how it goes, every time, this escalation and dramatics.

For context, from my OP: His most recent bout of ‘I don’t understand, have we done something to upset you?’ is because I’m trying to reduce contact with them - from every other week, for 10+ hours, in my home, which was just assumed by them and deeply uncomfortable for me, to once every three weeks, for a shorter time, either in a neutral location or at their house so that I can leave.

That’s all I’ve asked for. Just to see them one week later than they assumed they’d be seeing me, in a way that is marginally more manageable for me. That’s what’s kicked off this ‘boohoo, we don’t know what we’ve done’ drama.

I just have to not engage with it. I do not have the time, brain capacity or desire. I’m working full-time, studying for a Master’s, raising DS, DH has just started a stressful new job etc. Just all the usual life stuff.

I do not want or need my parents once again trying to make it look as though I’m leading some weird niche existence by just having a normal, peaceful life with some distance from them. That’s all I wanted at age 23/24 when they kicked off big time - I just wanted to live still in the same county as them, nearish to my uni town, near my new boyfriend at the time (now husband) to study for my PGCE. None of that is remotely weird.

i just have to not get drawn into the drama pattern that they want to draw me into (again). Will be interesting to see if there’s a medical emergency again this time too, as that seems to be part of the script.

And of course, my mum has never actually been ‘there for’ me during any difficult parts of my life. She raged, she pushed me away, she said completely insensitive things at points when I was really vulnerable. In fact, she WAS many of the difficult parts of my life.

Just. So. Fucking. Tired. Of this utter shit.

Now in my late 50’s have only recently unpacked how shit my parents have been.
I always felt an obligation to be a good daughter.
I think you have hit the crossroads I got to about 18 months ago when I gave myself permission to stop thinking about what I “should” do and to do what I want to do.

Just because these manipulative drains are your parents doesn’t mean you are obliged to give them anything; least of all your time, energy or goodwill. Similarly you don’t have to facilitate a relationship for them with your child.

It’s OK to feel how you do.
Don’t acknowledge the message. If you’re not at the “blocking” stage, mute/ archive their messages.
Don’t answer the door. Don’t make any commitments or agreements with them.
They may get angry and ramp up the sob stories but stick to your guns and let them be angry. They’ll get bored eventually and just start slagging you off to others … let them.
You know your truth

"Thanks mum, I'll come to your house on such a date for the afternoon- need to be back home at 5. Be good to catch up and keep it light"

And if she starts getting heavy, say that you have a lot of study on and need to go.

As I say, engulfing people loathe people escaping. Don't be surprised if there's trouble. It might help to print out thus thread, fold it up, out it in your pocket where it cant fall out and touch it if you start getting overwhelmed.

Or, better, meet in a neutral place.

What do you mean when you say your dad ‘just won’t let me’ reduce contact??? If you don’t want to see someone, just don’t be available. If they turn up at the house, don’t let them in - ‘sorry dad, we’re just in our way out. If you phone next time you want to pop over it’ll save you a wasted journey. See you later.’
It’s ok to not like your parents, it’s ok to hardly ever see them.

@PinkHibiscusFlowers emotional drains is such an accurate term for it. I keep thinking about what if the shoe was on the other foot and it was DH’s family who were like this. I just can’t imagine anyone expecting him to tolerate it or keep the peace etc, and the aaabsolute drain on brainspace and emotional energy is just ludicrous. So sorry that you’ve been through this too. It seems like there are lots of us out there.

@ReleaseTheDucksOfWar I’m so sorry because I said I’d come back to your brilliant first post and I still haven’t properly. I just wanted to say that I appreciated it so much and felt really moved to read it.

Some of these posts have felt like hugs which I’ve really needed, and there’s been lots of advice and strength. It’s really isolating having parents like this because a lot of people in real life don’t get it, or they understand that my parents are difficult ‘but they’re still your parents’/‘but you only get one mum’ (which I am PAINFULLY aware of, thanks very much).

Thanks all for your kindness