Reducing contact with parents when one denies years of harmful behaviour

[bpddaughterhelp]

Hi everyone,

Wondering if I can ask about your experiences with a parent with BPD (specifically a BPD mum and enabling dad). I’m increasingly sure that my mum has undiagnosed BPD or another Cluster B disorder (she certainly has many strong traits despite no formal diagnosis that I’m aware of).

My dad is absolutely resistant to recognising how her behaviour has affected us over decades. He minimises it, conveniently forgets it, pressures me to ‘leave the past in the past’, ‘build bridges’, ‘you’re too sensitive’, ‘you know what she’s like’ etc etc etc.

His most recent bout of ‘I don’t understand, have we done something to upset you?’ is because I’m trying to reduce contact with them - from every other week, for 10+ hours, in my home, which was just assumed by them and deeply uncomfortable for me, to once every three weeks, for a shorter time, either in a neutral location or at their house so that I can leave.

I just… don’t know what to do with this any more. In 2018, he actually said to me that he was worried that my mum’s behaviour would lead to me not wanting them to see my (then imagined, future) children, so why is he now claiming he doesn’t know why I’m reducing contact?

Where do I go from here? I am absolutely exhausted by trying to battle and manage this relationship. There is no actual relationship, there is only the constant struggle of trying to keep mum on an even keel and trying to convince my dad that yes it was that bad and yes he should have protected us, and of trying to protect my child from the same dynamics that were so damaging to me.

I’ve had therapy on and off for the best part of 10 years. It’s helped me to see so much more clearly the dysfunctional family dynamics at play here. But whenever I try to reduce contact, this is what happens.

I actually would be deeply deeply relieved to never see or hear from them again. I am so so done.

What do I do now? My dad said yesterday that there is ‘nothing recent that [he is] aware of’ that warrants me reducing contact. It’s like he has this wilful misunderstanding or amnesia. I have had this conversation with him repeatedly over the years. I explained (again) my experience and point of view and he’s left me on read.

Wtf do i do?

Honestly, I think that the only way things will get better for you is to cut off contact completely. Your parents, even your dad in the service of your mother, are those 'give them an inch and they'll take a mile' people. Every concession you make, every boundary that you lower slightly is a signal to them that they can push and push until they get exactly what they want.

It's pathological and they are dangerous people. They are incapable of being normal parents and grandparents. They live in a world of delusion where they believe that their behaviour is absolutely normal when it is actually disfunctional to the point of insanity.

Eventually, this will start affecting your son in the same way that their behaviour affected you so the sooner you go no contact the better.

JFC, you sound like one of OP's flying monkeys, defending the indefensible.

Would you congratulate OP's dad for for taking his marriage vows seriously if OP's mum had been physically violent to her and her dad supported and enabled her?

Different era my arse. That makes no difference whatsoever to the fact that he's spent decades enabling his abusive wife.

'Be kind'? When people have been despicable for decades, they absolutely do not deserve any kindness from their victim. The only person the OP needs to be kind to is herself.

They’re 60 years old, for context, and got married in about 1990. It’s not like we’re talking about Victorians’ stiff upper lip or something. I was at school in the 2000s and something should’ve been done by someone (anyone), but these kinds of things are so insidious that they go under the radar.

You aren’t talking or explaining to normal people you are just hitting your head against a brick wall. They don’t care what you feel or want they are vampires needing to feed on your blood. You have tried ways to be assertive to get them to respect you so their behaviour is modified and not abusive but that’s not ever going to happen. That is what you hope and wish for with your whole heart but that won’t ever happen and you need to break the circle of abuse from affecting the next generation. Walking away is the only protection you have in your arsenal to shield your son so he doesn’t grow up normalising abusive as love.

They are younger than me then.

Im so sorry that you have had to deal with this, your whole life, but you are doing so bloody well trying to put in some boundaries now. I hope you manage to find peace from this. Dont let ANYONE ever try to tell you an awful grandparent for your DS is better than no grandparent either - you (and I, and many on this thread) know that isnt true... a black cloud over you and your DS's life is not worth the very brief moments of sun when your parents might be nice to him, when your skies could otherwise be clear with maybe a teeny tiny black cloud on the horizon. Bad analogy!
Can i ask, have you tried grey rock as a response at all yet, as you and many other posters have observed, the explaining (and i think you've articulated yourself very well) appears to not be working - so maybe a short grey rock message might?

'Dad, as you know, its not about whats happened recently, its a lifetime of behaviour that has hurt me, so you need to respect my wishes in order for us to have a relationship.' Then just 'see you on xx at xx'
Apologies if you have already tried this.

I actually wondered if turning 60 might be some sort of catalyst for examining why our relationship isn’t close and thinking about repair etc, but no such luck unfortunately

Oh Op! My heart goes out to you reading those messages. you just want him to acknowledge. Sadly he can’t. He’s just as damaged as your mum. He’s also abusive just in a different way.

you need to give very little info. I use my DH as a shield. He’ll drop info on my parents when we see them. ‚We have decided to do x,y,z soon‘. His mum‘s been poorly and we need to help, his brothers bday. I then use all those things as excuses not to meet. He keeps it vague in terms of dates and sometimes ‚things had to be moved and there’s now a clash‘. If worse comes to worse we are ill.

we see my parents every 2-3 months now. I ring once a week whilst I’m cooking so I can ‚dash off and get something out of oven‘.

I always keep it breezy and tell them the bare minimum. I don’t mention their past behaviour there’s no point

You’re ‚disappointed‘ in a stranger?!? Are you ok?

what possessed you to write that? Most bizarre!

to everyone dealing parents like this.

And thank you all for the very wise observations on this thread.

When the grandparents, friends and other relatives ring you up to reprimand you or tell you how devastated your parents are you use our late Queens mantra, never complain, never explain. You say hello Granny, how are you? I’m sorry to hear my mum’s constant calls to you are affecting your heart. I was hoping she wouldn’t feel the need to involve everyone as it’s between me and my parents. Yes I understand that when your child no matter their age is upset you feel the need to smooth but I’m sure it will blow over soon. No I’m not going to do as you ask as it’s my problem that I need to sort out in my own way. I’m sorry to hear your love for me is conditional on my actions and doing exactly what you tell me. Goodbye granny.

To all the people pleasers reading this including me, life is not a popularity contest. There are very manipulative people out there who don’t care what is best for you so you call them out and say no thank you, that doesn’t work for me. Whether they like you or not doesn’t matter you have to be authentic. You have the right to disagree and say no!

@bpddaughterhelp this is a really great example of you over explaining something to someone who has clearly demonstrated they don’t have the capacity to understand you. Not everything deserves a response or your energy. It is absolutely okay to be misunderstood.

You need to stick to the boundaries. My situation is very challenging because we have it on both sides. These are situations where there has been police involvement and by any definition serious crimes have been committed. Yet still you will have people who don’t understand absolutely most notably the people such as the parents who it benefits not to understand.

Stop trying to get that understanding. Some people lack capacity for it and that is just something you need to deal with.

Apologies in advance as I have not read the whole thread just your OP.

Deliberately so because this sort of thing makes me so cross.

There are people who are wilfully blind and you will never get them to open their eyes because it is too uncomfortable for them and selfishly they prioritise their own comfort at all times.

In this type of situation you face a choice about how far you can accommodate this selfishness and the damage you do to yourself in continuing to swallow your anger and your grief.

Eventually you become too full for another crumb and at that point you have to walk away.

You’re right. Even as I was typing it, I was starting to have that kind of realisation.

It really hurts when people don’t get it and I really want to get them to see what I can see. I spend and have spent so much time trying to see others’ point of view and I want other people to try and see mine, but I do realise that for some people it will be impossible. Thank you x

Stop engaging, OP. Just stop with all the messages, they love that!

Do what you want OP, but I find it disappointing and disrespectful of you to want to cut them off.

oh my, you couldnt be more wrong. You have no idea how forgiving op has been. And shown respect when it wasn’t earnt. OP is clearly an amazing and loving individual that they have let it go on this long. Tolerance wouldn’t be a thing without boundaries. You’re not suggesting tolerance, you’re telling them they owe someone their complete psychological capitulation (slavery?) to a person who is demonstrably disordered through many experiences through space and time.

This is a huge strength, seeing other peoples' pov.

Just use it judiciously! Not every pov is valid or valuable. But it's a good ability to have.

op I think you’re grappling with the realisation that your dad was never the ‘safe parent’, he was the slightly less neurotic one. You’re realising that even as a small child this was the norm and you were unsafe with both and that remains the same now. Have you read much about this dynamic where both parents are unloving but one more mealy mouthed about it. I had similar but it was a parent and an older sibling and boy does it give you whiplash when you see it. Be patient and kind with yourself op it’s quite the journey but one there is endless resources for online to help.

No I do get it. It is extremely painful given your experiences but it really hurts you to get more of that lack of compassion and understanding, more than most because you did not get it growing up clearly.

However it has become a habit for you to try to chase it because of that experience but that is because you are having a block fully accepting that quite a lot of people won’t give it to you.

The muscle you have to strengthen is that you have to give it to yourself instead of seeking it out externally.

If you came from a healthy family dynamic you would have learned that by being validated by your parent and internalising that voice but since you didn’t get that you need to teach it to yourself.

Your parents are younger than me, this is nothing to do with their age!

Are you absolutely sure your mother even has MS? I mean categorically sure?

Could you bear to block them and just disappear. Let them rant and rave. If they send in flying monkeys, you block them too.

Absolutely don’t allow them in your house if they turn up.

You actually never have to see or speak to these people ever again. How does that feel?

This is such a great point.

Wisdom @bpddaughterhelp is knowing where the exceptions to the rules are.

Your parents, due to their limitations and behaviour, are the exceptions to many of the rules you have absorbed about parents and parenting.

@bpddaughterhelp

This is a useful post actually because it demonstrates how unhealthy patterns of thinking operate. It is classic DARVO technique in action and allows you to see how similar this thinking is in how your parents operate.

This poster is dysfunctional in how they view relationships and what healthy family relationships look like. You really cannot argue with this approach but what you can do is recognise it and not get drawn into trying to justify your feelings for validation.

Changing dysfunctional family patterns is never smooth or easy because those family members do not want things to change. They have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. Just take strength from the fact you recognise it as unhealthy and you're breaking the cycle for your son..

Good point.

The sheer presumption of that poster thinking she had some right to be disappointed in the OP too! As well as the attempt to get the OP to quietly knuckle under and sacrifice herself ... actually, I wonder if it was some sort of wind up post? It was so badly judged.