I (36M) struggle with my wife's (35F) lack of desire.

[UndesirableM]

First of all: I hope this post is ok. I know this site is called Mumsnet, but as the title indicates, I'm a man. I'm struggling with something that I don't know how to cope with, and could use women's perspective.

My wife (35F) and I (36M) have a great relationship, going on 14 years now. We have a family live a mostly happy life. While I believe my wife is objectively beautiful/hot, I don't think I'm necessarily unattractive either.

However, over the years, I've just felt more and more 'undesired' or 'unwanted'. In a general sense (does she still find me attractive? Does she still love me/like as before?) and even more so sexually (is she still sexually interested in me?).

In our relationship, I'm considerably more vocal about my feelings towards her than the other way around. I'll tell her I love her, especially at moments when I really feel/experience that. I tell her how beautiful or hot/sexy she is, what things about her are beautiful/sexy or that she turns me on. She'll never do that, except perhaps to reciprocate ("I love you too"). I also have a hard time keeping my hands of her, because in my eyes she's just the hottest woman ever. Every time I see her naked, I want to jump her bones. She tells me she appreciates that (makes her feel wanted), and has admitted that she perhaps takes such things for granted.

When it comes to sex, I'm always the one to initiate. While I cannot really complain about the receptiveness (she's almost always open to it), she'll never initiate. And if she does, it is very much a "it has been a while, perhaps maybe we should do it again". This often doesn't really comes from a place of desire, but more from a 'relationship maintenance' place.

All this together makes me feel very undesired. I often feel like she'll only have sex with to 'facilitate' me, not because she has a genuine desire for sex.
At the very beginning of the relationship, as with many relationship, we would have sex every time we saw each other and sometimes multiple times a day. This started to quite quickly change when we started living together, and, as with many couples, clearly didn't get any better after having a family.

We've spoken about this a few times, and her explanation is that "it's not me". It's just that she doesn't have an inherent need or desire for sex anymore (only very rarely does she get genuinely horny, often when alcohol is involved), and she needs to get herself in the mood for it, make herself want it. She does say she loves it when we do have sex.

This part is making me feel incredibly unwanted and undesired. I feel like I'm so not attractive enough, that she needs to make herself want to have sex with me. There are no verbal or nonverbal indications that there is anything about me that makes her want me, or turns her on.

She's told me the 'needing to get herself in the mood for it' is not uncommon and most of her friends have that and that I should not take it personally. While I have no reason to believe she's making that up, it also doesn't really resonate with me as I'm not in a relationship with her friends.

I want to emphasize that I'll never cheat on her, but I do find myself enjoying interest of other women (and on occasion men, which is appreciated in a different way), as it can give me that sense of somebody wanting me a bit back. I'll absolutely never act on it though.

I genuinely don't know what to do. I'm married to the hottest woman ever, I love her to death but I feel like sexually, I'm not interesting enough for her.
Are there any women out there with some advice/experience? This is slowly breaking my heart.

Your wife is right that this is very common, and there are several things that can impact libido at this stage.

The one that was massive for me was the pill. When I was on it, I felt exactly as your wife does and I thought it was just normal. When I came off it the difference was incredible. I'd never go back now, but so many women are in this situation and don't make the connection.

Secondly, are you pulling your weight at home? If your wife is doing the majority of the parenting and housework, she'll be exhausted.

You talk a lot about how you feel and what you want but don't seem to have considered why she might not be feeling like sex. Do you help around the house and with the kids? It is hard to feel sexy if you feel like a live in maid, chef, child carer and PA. Are you sharing the load equally in the family? She may simply not have the bandwidth or, at worst, she may see you as an adult child she has to manage and look after, because you have made her take on all of the responsibility for the household and your parents.

Your communication seems good, her receptive desire seems good, I think you may need to work on beleiving her when she tells you how she experiences her lack of spontaeneous desire. Its not about you, its how her body is working at the minute. And its really isn't uncommon.
Listen to what she is saying, and stop thinking that becuase she doesn't experience sex in the way you do, that its because "you're not interesting enough for her". You're probably thinking that if you weren't experiencing spontaeneous desire, that would be the reason why, but that's not what she's telling you
Her experience of sex is fundamentally different from yours, you have to be mature & empathetic enough not to take how her body is working, as a criticism of you

Thank you for your response. My wife has been on and off the pill, without much difference.

As for pulling my weight at home: the division of labor is pretty evenly distributed at home, where we both have our clear tasks and responsibilities. She does the laundry, while I cook and clean, do groceries, take care of the garbage/litterbox and such things. When it comes to our kids, this is mostly a joint effort in the sense that we either do it together, or alternate with certain tasks/responsibilities. This has also never been a real topic of discussion, as the current way this goes work for both of us.

I’d start with look at the bigger picture, all aspects of your life together.
~ whether you really make time to talk to each other about everything with no interruptions and no kids listening in.
~ Mental load - is it equal? Often the man will only have work to think about while the woman has kids stuff, house admin, relatives, etc etc etc on her list.
~physical load should be equal too. Chores.
~ really listening to each other

All of this makes a huge difference. Not simply telling her she’s hot and expecting her to grab you with desire there and then.

Thank you for your message.

I understand not feeling like sex, as I experience it as well. Just not a complete lack of it.

As for helping around the house: Things in our house are pretty evenly distributed, where she does laundry and I cook/clean, do groceries, take care of garbage and such things. We're both happy with this division of tasks and responsibilities. As for our kids: this is basicly 50/50, where we either do things together, or alternate in tasks/responsibilities regarding our kids.

Are you ever just affectionate with her, giving her a hug for example with no expectations of sex? Do you pull your weight around the house and with the kids?

Hi OP,
I am sorry you are feeling this way, I can empathise with how it is making you feel.
Do you have young children? How long have things been this way?
Speaking from experience, I am 39 my husband 35, although it’s not necessarily helpful, after many years together I think sex really waxes and wanes and almost comes a lot lower on the priority list for a lot of people. Raising children, working etc. Personally it really is the last thing on my mind at the end of the day. My husband is the same, very tactile and I am not as much. I love him dearly but I don’t want to be touched constantly and sex isn’t on my mind whilst I am washing up or cooking the dinner. I don’t love him any less, but I also feel the same as your wife, I don’t have that push of desire as much as I did when we got together. Similarly to your wife I love it when it happens, I love my husband and only want to have sex with him, but I only have pockets of time where I am really horny. Hormonal changes can really affect our libido too.
I ask this kindly, do you share responsibilities around the house? I must admit I fancy my husband a lot more when he is mowing the lawn, hoovering the car etc. Acts of service if you will. That really gets me going! 😂
Do you do other things together that isn’t just penetration? Do you kiss? Cuddle? Etc etc. Are you close in other ways?
How often would you like sex?
Does your wife actually state we need to do it as we haven’t in a while or is that your impression?

It very common for people to have mismatched desires. It just depends what you want to do about it, whether this is a deal breaker or you can live with it?

I think we need some more background on your relationship besides this.

:)

Yes this is a huge thing too. Being able to be affectionate without the expectation of it going further.

Do you go on dates or spend quality time just the two of you away from the kids?

Perhaps she needs to be wooed to feel spontaneous desire?

Thank you for your response.

Regarding the talking to eachother: I tend to be the talkative one, where she might feel the need to 'talk about things' a little less. This will almost always be after the kid's bedtime, so no interruptions.

As for mental load: this is hard for me to answer as I cannot always tell what's going on in her head. That said, I'm generally the 'worrier' of our two (perhaps this post is an example of that), though I'm sure she'll have things on her mind as well.

Physical load is pretty equal, and we're both satisfies how things are divided.

I try to really listen, but, perhaps also indicated by this post, find it sometimes hard to shake certain feelings.

As for the "All of this makes a huge difference. Not simply telling her she’s hot and expecting her to grab you with desire there and then."

That is not the expectation. I was merely giving an example of how I could express desire, either verbally or non-verbally. I'm not expecting her to do the same or to rip off my clothes in response. There is simply no expression from her side that she is attracted to me.

The bit I am not getting is that she has literally told you that it isn’t you, sex just isn’t something that interests her generally at the moment. So why do you feel personally undesirable by that? That is very me me me. There is obvo a general conversation to be had about what her not wanting sex means for your relationship, ie whether it’s a phase or not etc; but if wouldn’t feel undesirable if the person literally told me it’s nothing to do with me.

Perhaps to clear some common topics up (I cannot edit my post anymore):
As for the division of labor in our house: this is evenly distributed. We both have our tasks and responsibilities. She does laundry, I do groceries, cook, clean, take care of the garbage and such things. With our kids everything is 50-50: we either do things together, or alternate doing things.

As for communication: We have a pretty open way of communicating. There are not much secrets in our relationship, and we feel like we can talk about anything. The topic being discussed here is discussed between us as well.

Nonsexual affection: we hug and kiss every day. I'm not touching her because of an expectation of sex. If sex is the things I'm interested in, I will simply ask if she's in the mood now or later, in which it is very clear that it's perfectly fine if she doesn't want to. There is no pressure regarding sex in our house, just a different level of desire.

If you are evenly splitting the chores then hopefully she isn't seeing you as just another job on a To Do list, so that is good as it is hard to come back to seeing someone is sexy when you have been made to feel they can't look after themselves.

My other suggestion would be that she has found something else that has "given her the ick" - porn or something she can't get her head around or has made her feel she isn't really the kind of woman you want.

Nearing 40's women's libido should be increasing as men's decreases. She isn't there yet but it should improve unless she is showing signs of early menopause? If you are sure it is just not of interest to her, I suspect she is just happy with minimal intimacy. If you have openly talked about it and she hasn't said she is worried about her lack of drive (which might suggest poss peri-meno symptoms) then I think you need to try to stop worrying about it. Are you a very anxious person and do you think perhaps you are over-analysing and winding yourself up? It could be you who is reading too much into her lack of desire and putting pressure on yourself with negative self-talk?

Are you genuinely affectionate towards her without her feeling it has to lead to sex? Or is getting your end away the end goal, do you think you can put horny credits in and get sex out?

I have to say, DP going on about how hot I am and how horny he is every time he caught a glimpse of me naked would probably grate over time. In the shower ive been thinking about the washing, and how the bath needs a clean, how the grout looks mouldy so ill have to remember to get some bleach, shit weve ran out of ketchup for the kids, ffs I didnt take the chicken out the freezer, shit its dress as a vegetable day in school tomorrow and ive forgot, jesus I need to sort Mums doctors appointment out, she did look frail the other day and looked unsteady, better sort her a hand rail out for her door etc., then if DP was to come along pawing at me after ive ran through all that in my mind in 10 mins, yea, that would piss me off if it was all the time.

Men are so very lucky to have steady hormones. Womens hormones vary around monthly cycles, pregnancy, breast feeding, child rearing, exhaustion, peri menopause, menopause, birth control, new relationships. They can't switch it on and off so believe her when she says that it's not about you.

But it sounds like she is responsive when given time to relax into it and does enjoy it. That's a good starting place.
Do you have dates out just the two of you? So that she can be herself and not being in mum mode?

I absolutely hate men using MN (a predominantly female site) to get women to work out their sexual and marital problems. Fundamentally, most seem to want women to take their side and I suspect they do it so that if it works, they can show it to their wives and say “see, I told you I was right and you do owe me sex”.

I know it can’t be stopped, I know I could scroll on, but I am so tired of men entering largely female spaces in life and online expecting women to help them. It reeks of male entitlement.

Crikey - this is a very valid point I hadn’t thought of. You’re right - I would never go on a male site and ask male strangers to give their time helping me with a problem. I wouldn’t ask that of a male. I guess we don’t have to answer, but you’re so right that there’s an entitlement there that a female doesn’t have.

Thank you for your elaborate reply, this is very insightful.

A common topic among the replies are if I'm "pulling my weight" around the house, and I can comfortably say I am. We have a clear agreed upon division of labor that works for both of us, and is arguably a bit heavier on my side, but totally fine with me. When it comes to our kids, this is about as 50-50 as it gets, as we either do things together or alternate between certain tasks/responsibilities.

There is definitely non-sexual affection. We hug/cuddle, kiss. Not every time I touch her, the intention is to have sex. I'm not constantly grabbing her butt, nor do I do that at any given time. If the intention is to have sex, it generally works best to just ask if she is in the mood now or perhaps later, in which it is clear that No is also a perfectly acceptable answer.

As for how often I would like sex: this varies a bit, with phases (days) in which I cannot stop thinking about having sex with her, to phases in which that subsides a bit more. Even in those phases in which I cannot stop thinking about it, I'm not harassing her about it.

As for when my wife initiates: at times, yes, she will say it or otherwise imply it clearly. Those are basically the only moment she will suggest it (often after it's been a while).

I disagree with PP's, sorry, I don't think this situation can change, however I think your situation isn't too bad. She doesn't initiate but almost always says yes when you do? Many people would love to be in that situation. OK initiating would be nice, but at the same time, you are still having a regular sex life with a woman you find attractive after 14 years. Is initiating that high of a price to pay?

The problem is, she is already as much or probably more sex than she really wants. If you really want her to initiate, you'll have to go without for a while to let the desire build. So you might get her to initiate, but you'd be having less sex overall.

Honestly, OP, you sound dreadfully insecure and anxious, and it seems to be coming with a lot of reassurance seeking, which could end up a huge turnoff. I think I’d feel overwhelmingly smothered if my DH was always telling me I’m beautiful, and was constantly seeking verbal compliments and affection. I (and most women I know) have grown out of that stereotypical teenage first love phase. Relationships now are more mature and do not require constant validation or intimacy. I’d highly recommend both some individual therapy for yourself, so you stop linking your self worth to your wife’s complements and sex drive. You will be much happier over the next few decades if you sort your own insecurities. You also need to do a tonne of actual learning about the impact of various hormonal shifts that women go through post children and into perimenopause and beyond. There are actually likely to be periods where she isn’t interested in sex at all. If you have tied your self worth to that cart, it’s going to be a problem!

And its nearly always "i tell her constantly how much she turns me on". Dont get me wrong its nice to hear that, but christ it must feel like living with Benny Hill.

How does that work? Do you give her a kiss and if the "intention" of that is sex, you ask if shed like it now or later?

I think i can see the likely issue if what you say is indeed how it plays out.

I apologize if that's the case. There are simply not many alternatives out there (if you do know any, I'm very interested), and hence why I prefaced my post with this. That said, upon account creation there was a 'male' option, of which I assumed it meant men were allowed here as well.

I am in no way looking for women to side with me. My entire point about this is to try and understand my wife a bit more. In that sense, Waitingforthesunshine24's comment has been very valuable, as she speaks from a position similar to my wife's.

As for owing me sex: She does not 'owe' me sex in any way and never would I ever use the arguments of an internet stranger try and force the issue. I'm trying to be informed about this topic to help and understand my wife, and perhaps deal with the situation better, for both our sakes.

I assume the experience you have with men on this website have not been positive, and I'm sorry about that. I was just looking for help with a problem that's pretty hard to talk about.

If the common opinion is that I should leave, than I'll simply delete my post and leave it at that.

How old are your children?