I (36M) struggle with my wife's (35F) lack of desire.

[UndesirableM]

First of all: I hope this post is ok. I know this site is called Mumsnet, but as the title indicates, I'm a man. I'm struggling with something that I don't know how to cope with, and could use women's perspective.

My wife (35F) and I (36M) have a great relationship, going on 14 years now. We have a family live a mostly happy life. While I believe my wife is objectively beautiful/hot, I don't think I'm necessarily unattractive either.

However, over the years, I've just felt more and more 'undesired' or 'unwanted'. In a general sense (does she still find me attractive? Does she still love me/like as before?) and even more so sexually (is she still sexually interested in me?).

In our relationship, I'm considerably more vocal about my feelings towards her than the other way around. I'll tell her I love her, especially at moments when I really feel/experience that. I tell her how beautiful or hot/sexy she is, what things about her are beautiful/sexy or that she turns me on. She'll never do that, except perhaps to reciprocate ("I love you too"). I also have a hard time keeping my hands of her, because in my eyes she's just the hottest woman ever. Every time I see her naked, I want to jump her bones. She tells me she appreciates that (makes her feel wanted), and has admitted that she perhaps takes such things for granted.

When it comes to sex, I'm always the one to initiate. While I cannot really complain about the receptiveness (she's almost always open to it), she'll never initiate. And if she does, it is very much a "it has been a while, perhaps maybe we should do it again". This often doesn't really comes from a place of desire, but more from a 'relationship maintenance' place.

All this together makes me feel very undesired. I often feel like she'll only have sex with to 'facilitate' me, not because she has a genuine desire for sex.
At the very beginning of the relationship, as with many relationship, we would have sex every time we saw each other and sometimes multiple times a day. This started to quite quickly change when we started living together, and, as with many couples, clearly didn't get any better after having a family.

We've spoken about this a few times, and her explanation is that "it's not me". It's just that she doesn't have an inherent need or desire for sex anymore (only very rarely does she get genuinely horny, often when alcohol is involved), and she needs to get herself in the mood for it, make herself want it. She does say she loves it when we do have sex.

This part is making me feel incredibly unwanted and undesired. I feel like I'm so not attractive enough, that she needs to make herself want to have sex with me. There are no verbal or nonverbal indications that there is anything about me that makes her want me, or turns her on.

She's told me the 'needing to get herself in the mood for it' is not uncommon and most of her friends have that and that I should not take it personally. While I have no reason to believe she's making that up, it also doesn't really resonate with me as I'm not in a relationship with her friends.

I want to emphasize that I'll never cheat on her, but I do find myself enjoying interest of other women (and on occasion men, which is appreciated in a different way), as it can give me that sense of somebody wanting me a bit back. I'll absolutely never act on it though.

I genuinely don't know what to do. I'm married to the hottest woman ever, I love her to death but I feel like sexually, I'm not interesting enough for her.
Are there any women out there with some advice/experience? This is slowly breaking my heart.

Why do men flock here with this problem so much? Does mumsnet have a reputation somewhere for helping men get laid?

I would never go on a male site and ask male strangers to give their time helping me with a problem. I wouldn’t ask that of a male.

Why not? Why expect free emotional labour from female strangers but not males?

This. And it's always the same question: 'Ladies, how do I get more sex from my wife?'

Probably looking for the few posters who say they are female and say they understand, they have an average libido and want sex 8 times a week and also feel shunned when their drained husk of a partner says no, once 🙄

I also find posts like this a bit irritating but I sense this is a genuine attempt to figure things out so I'll take itin the spirt in which I think it was intended.

What you are describing g is, in my opinion, a pretty standard reality in many couples. For women, that constant horniess and sex just isn't as much of a thing at this point in our lives as we navigate changing hormones, small children etc.

And like other posters have said, a man telling us we're hot all the time and desireable, on paper is lovely. But the reality is that I'm simply not thinking about sex all the time so if DH is constantly telling me how hot he thinks I am, I get a bit irritated. I'm getting dressed after the shower - I know he's probably thinking about my naked body but quite honestly, I'm thinkiing aboug what I'm going to wear seeing as I have both a work meeting and an appointment at the school, I'm thinking about the next 5 things I need to do to ensure i'm on time and prepared for both meetings, and I'm trying to decide if I should put a load of whites on today or do the darks today and whites tomorrow and how will that impact the kids' availability of uniform. For example. I'm NOT thinking about sex and no, i don't find it endearing or sexy or flattering if DH is. In fact, if anything, I am annoyed because if he was thinking about the washing instead of sex, then maybe I wouldn't have that on my plate too.

DH and I have a good relationship and I'm happy. But let me tell you the two little niggles that are constantly bugging me and that he just doesn't understand.

1. I feel like I'm out of sight, out of mind. And if he IS thinking about me when I'm not around, he's thinking about sex. He is a loving, considerate husband but it never ceases to amaze me how if he's not in the house, he' sjust not thinking about me, the dc, the house etc. It's feel like I am always thinking that. I come out of a meeting and check my phone in case anyone has needed me. I am in a shop and I'm thinking, "oh, while I'm here should I pick up more shampoo for DH?". etc etc
2. He often tells me what he loves about me. Which is great when it comes up - I do something and he might say, "I love how thoughtful you are". But if you ask him spontaneously, out of nowhere, he will almost always tell me I'm hot. (which is kind because, objectively, I'm not). I wish that he would prioritise my personality and character. But he can't.

These are not to complain. My point is that I do think men are different and it pisses me off, but I accept it.

Also, I don't want you to take this the wrong way, but you may well be doing your fair share at home, but I'd be fascinated on whether you really are taking on half or a little more. In my experience, men massively overstate their contribution and are completely oblivious to the thinking and planning behind things. Which is why the grope while we're washing up or the attempt to derail the post-shower dressing annoys us so much.

I have literally just read this on Facebook. It might be relevant to OP but regardless, there is a lot of truth in it...

"It’s not that she doesn’t want sex. She just doesn’t want the sex she knows she’s going to have with you.

Harsh? Maybe. But I think we need to talk about it.

For far too long, women have been labelled the “less sexual” gender. When a woman’s desire disappears in a long-term relationship, we assume something has happened to her libido. She’s tired. She has a headache. Her hormones have changed. She’s just “not that interested in sex anymore.”

But what if sometimes she hasn’t lost her sexuality at all?

What if she’s lost interest in sex that has become predictable, disconnected or centred around somebody else’s pleasure?

Research into long-term relationships suggests that sexual boredom and partner-specific desire can be particularly intertwined for women. Women reporting greater sexual boredom can still experience desire - just not necessarily desire for their established partner. And research has also found that feeling understood, valued and responded to by a partner is associated with greater sexual desire, with that association especially strong among women.

Women are not inherently sexually passive creatures waiting to be pursued.

A woman who feels desired, seen, safe, excited and whose pleasure is treated as equally important can be a very different woman sexually.

So perhaps we need to stop automatically asking, “Why doesn’t she want sex?”

And start asking:

“Is the sex she’s being offered actually sex worth wanting?”"

Men come on here all the time to ask how they can get more sex OP.

They never ask how to do more housework! Weird huh?

I think some posters on here are being quite rude to the OP. As a woman these questions don’t offend or upset me at all, I think some people need to calm down and get off their high horses He is being respectful and open, no need to pile on him.

Why shouldn’t he come on here? I think it’s good he is asking for advice etc who are any of you to judge. Like I say, OP I think you have been really respectful and polite.

There are a lot of really good points in this thread, some people need to take a chill pill.

For what it’s worth OP, from what you have described it sounds you are your wife have a good life :)

What are you doing to make yourself attractive?

Im sure that applies to some women but Id be amazed if this was a common thing. It does read like something a man has proposed. Cant put my finger on it but its almost a bit "be altruistic, spice it up for HER, not you, you understand"

Then its all confusing when the woman isnt infact keen on surprise cock while shes doing the ironing.

Say hot again. You didn't say it enough.

You sound utterly suffocating OP. Neediness and constant validation isn't sexy. No wonder sex is a bit of a chore.

When a women goes off sex but everything else is otherwise ticking over nicely. It's not usually due to 'attractiveness'. Stop the navel gazing and inject some fun into your lives.

Or just give her orgasms without expectations. Like, I'll be over to sort you out love once the dishwasher is on. Then we can watch a bit of TV, your choice.

Questions: (to ask yourself as much as telling us here)

How often would you want sex with her if you could have it as much as you like ?(genuinely - not being silly)

How often are you hoping for, expecting, sex now?

How often is it actually happening?

How often do the two of you have a date night doing things she enjoys (without the expectation that this will mean sex at the end).

How well do you really know her body and exactly what she likes/hates in bed?

Do you really know how she feels about her own body?

Oh and i totally agree with the 'is it the sex that's always on the menu' or is it 'sex in general' - that she's gone off, or is bored with?

Hard question to ask and answer.

[Sorry @MagicUser1 , quoted the wrong comment and now I can't remove it]

Alright, perhaps it's time to call it quits as it's becoming a bit hostile.

Just for the record, my intention of this post was not to 'get laid' 8 times a week, or to find affirmation of my own desires (I'd probably ask men if I wanted to have affirmation of such a cliché standpoint). I am nowhere in my post asking about how to get more sex. I'm explaining a problem of how to deal with a lack of desire. I'm not asking to change it, merely to understand it. I don't know whether or not this is normal, or if I need to worry about something. I've been with my wife for 14 years, and don't make a habit to bring up my sex life with other women and ask them about whether they're the same or not. I though doing so anomously on a website like this could provide me with a better understanding of an element of my relationship.

Just to clear some things up: I'm not constantly haunting her with remarks about how hot she is or how she turns me on. I may say it at times. I'm not pestering her with this as I understand this would both become annoying and eventually meaningless if someone says that all the time. I only mentioned this as an example of a difference in how we express ourselves.

There also seems to be a common dominator on this topic, which is the division of labor at home. I'm confident this is not an issue, as we have a clear division of labor ar home, which work for both of us. I have no reason to believe this is one of the issues regarding this topic, as we talk about this as well. I like to care of my family, and I know how much she hates doing things around the house, hence why I don't mind doing a bit more here and there. Same goes for our kids, where everything is literally 50-50: we do everything either together, or alternate between tasks.

I am genuinely struggling with a lack of understanding of how my wife's sex drive/lust works, and was hoping the perspective of women in similar situations could help me understand. My understanding is now, that that is not appreciated here.

That said, some remarks or implications made here were absolutely uncalled for. I love my wife more than anything, she is intelligent, funny and just on overall great person. This was never about making her give me more sex, or anything to that extend. It was about understanding a change in her desire.

Nonetheless I want to thank Waitingforthesunshine24, MagicUser1 and others who replied with helpful intent thoroughly, as it has helped.

You keep saying physical chores are 50/50, but what about the mental load? It's not 50/50 if she still has to think about what needs doing and then ask you i.e groceries, do you just do the shopping? who plans the meals, notices what needs topping up, writes the list? With the kids, does she have to ask you to do stuff, i.e can you give them a bath while I sort x.

This is brilliant put and what I attempted badly to say.

Exactly. Just processing that right now. Ingrained internalised misogyny from my part, which I’ll make sure I correct going forward.

While I cannot look inside her head an know what she's thinking about: I plan the meal, make the groceries list. Chores wise, everything that is not related to laundry, I do.
Kids wise: we have a pretty solid routine with the kids, and alternate between who's doing what or otherwise discuss who's doing what. We alternate with school runs, bath/shower time/bed time things, making breakfast/lunch and things like that.

Not trying to diss you here, OP, just weighing in with my own life experience. When I was about your wife's age I was in a serious relationship with a man who talked a lot about his love for me, his desire for me etc etc etc. I never felt loved because love is a verb. His actions did not back up his language and everything became about him and his feelings. You might want to ponder your own actions. Not your words.

Oh ok so you've gone OP.

I find it odd that you read the same response a few times (labor division) or read a few slightly snotty posts and decided that's that.

Unimpressed.

That's sounds very dismissive and reminds me of my ex-husband tbf - you keep talking about the physical aspects of chores, and just brush off any talk of mental load as 'well I can't see what's in her head' and then reiterate how fair it is.

I would bet money on her taking on more of the mental load, and then you compound this with insistence it's equal, the kids are in a routine (devised by who, thought about by who) and 'well what more could you do'. You even say you know she doesn't like doing specific chores so you 'help her out with those'.

This thread is hostile he was right. He came here for support and people are so darn rude and sarcastic. He didn’t need to be spoken to like he has been.

I don't think you fully understand what the mental load is. Who sorts gifts (friends, kids birthday parties, her family, your family), medical appointments, parents' evenings, is in the school WhatsApp groups, has the school app to check on progress or choose school dinners, sorts insurance, does financial planning, arranges for pet vaccinations?

Mental load doesn't mean attending an appointment, it means booking it, following up, setting reminders, following up again when they don't reply etc.

From what you've written it doesn't feel like you've actually asked her what you can do to improve and be more attractive.

Yep, and Id say every post has given an insight to how his wife might be feeling. Lots of different views, some not wrapped up in a nice fluffy package admittedly, but even that should be helpful and help give insight of how his approach has got some womens backs up a bit, so maybe his wife is feeling the same.

Interesting how the question of how often would he like his offer of sex "now or later" to be accepted vs how often do they have sex wasnt answered.