I (36M) struggle with my wife's (35F) lack of desire.

[UndesirableM]

First of all: I hope this post is ok. I know this site is called Mumsnet, but as the title indicates, I'm a man. I'm struggling with something that I don't know how to cope with, and could use women's perspective.

My wife (35F) and I (36M) have a great relationship, going on 14 years now. We have a family live a mostly happy life. While I believe my wife is objectively beautiful/hot, I don't think I'm necessarily unattractive either.

However, over the years, I've just felt more and more 'undesired' or 'unwanted'. In a general sense (does she still find me attractive? Does she still love me/like as before?) and even more so sexually (is she still sexually interested in me?).

In our relationship, I'm considerably more vocal about my feelings towards her than the other way around. I'll tell her I love her, especially at moments when I really feel/experience that. I tell her how beautiful or hot/sexy she is, what things about her are beautiful/sexy or that she turns me on. She'll never do that, except perhaps to reciprocate ("I love you too"). I also have a hard time keeping my hands of her, because in my eyes she's just the hottest woman ever. Every time I see her naked, I want to jump her bones. She tells me she appreciates that (makes her feel wanted), and has admitted that she perhaps takes such things for granted.

When it comes to sex, I'm always the one to initiate. While I cannot really complain about the receptiveness (she's almost always open to it), she'll never initiate. And if she does, it is very much a "it has been a while, perhaps maybe we should do it again". This often doesn't really comes from a place of desire, but more from a 'relationship maintenance' place.

All this together makes me feel very undesired. I often feel like she'll only have sex with to 'facilitate' me, not because she has a genuine desire for sex.
At the very beginning of the relationship, as with many relationship, we would have sex every time we saw each other and sometimes multiple times a day. This started to quite quickly change when we started living together, and, as with many couples, clearly didn't get any better after having a family.

We've spoken about this a few times, and her explanation is that "it's not me". It's just that she doesn't have an inherent need or desire for sex anymore (only very rarely does she get genuinely horny, often when alcohol is involved), and she needs to get herself in the mood for it, make herself want it. She does say she loves it when we do have sex.

This part is making me feel incredibly unwanted and undesired. I feel like I'm so not attractive enough, that she needs to make herself want to have sex with me. There are no verbal or nonverbal indications that there is anything about me that makes her want me, or turns her on.

She's told me the 'needing to get herself in the mood for it' is not uncommon and most of her friends have that and that I should not take it personally. While I have no reason to believe she's making that up, it also doesn't really resonate with me as I'm not in a relationship with her friends.

I want to emphasize that I'll never cheat on her, but I do find myself enjoying interest of other women (and on occasion men, which is appreciated in a different way), as it can give me that sense of somebody wanting me a bit back. I'll absolutely never act on it though.

I genuinely don't know what to do. I'm married to the hottest woman ever, I love her to death but I feel like sexually, I'm not interesting enough for her.
Are there any women out there with some advice/experience? This is slowly breaking my heart.

Quite frankly: No. You keep projecting things that aren't there. Perhaps your experiences on this website have not been good to you, that you cannot fathom that perhaps I don't have any ulterior motives than just seeking help. And while I understand that you're offended and irritated by a man seeking help in more women dominated space, that can be expressed quite a bit less toxic. But I'm sure you will spin this as me being opposed to women setting boundaries, rather than just a reaction from one person to another.

Also, while this might be called Mumsnet and I understand there might be considerable more women then men here, there is a clear 'male' action option when creating an account. I took this as an indication that men are welcome here as well, and this website wasn't exclusively for women. Additionally, this website is largely marketed as "by parents, for parents", and not women specifically. Lastly, I prefaced my posts specifically to indicate that I wasn't sure if it was ok for a man to post here. You could have mentioned that it was not ok in quite a different manner, yet you chose to do so with resentment.

Once again, I am not seeking for ways to have more sex with my wife, regardless of how many times you repeat it. You keep saying I ignore your points, but you keep making things up and accusing me of things that are simply not true, regardless of what your previous experiences have taught you. I am trying to understand how certain things work for her, and sought help from people who I thought could perhaps relate. Had I known people would get so triggered over this, I would've reconsidered.

It has been made very clear in this thread that women experience (sexual) desire quite differently than men. Is it really that weird then, that I seek advice of those who can speak from a position of experience? I could've ran to some men's forum, but I doubt I would've gotten the same insights as I've gotten from some of the posters here.

I will admit though, that I never considered seeking help to be this offensive, for which my apologies.

I have no problem with you disagreeing with my position. But you have no doubt noted that many others agree. You can’t see my likes and agrees, but several others have raised similar concerns in the thread.

I was clear in my first post that while it is allowed, that doesn’t mean I can’t think it wrong nor that I shouldn’t say so. Hmmm, that was a bit garbled and full of double negatives, but hopefully you get my point!

"What you lot need is a good fuck."
"What you need is a good old-fashioned shag to sort you out."
"You're only here because you can't get a man."

These were the contents of the shouted and extremely aggressive verbal abuse by men and security forces to the women protesting at Greenham Common.

The "you women need a good rogering" trope is used very often by men to excuse rape and to threaten into submission women who say things that men don't like.

This trope says that women need to be corrected with forcible sex (rape).

This trope is often used to shut down politically active women, feminists, and lesbians.

This kind of threatening verbal assault is now REGULARLY used against female journalists, politicians, and public figures who express outspoken political views online. These women constantly face coordinated harassment campaigns where men explicitly make these rape threats and worse. This is from Stella Creasy's court case against her online harasser

"You better watch your back... Im gonna rape your ass at 8pm and put the video all over the internet."
"i will rape you tomorrow at 9pm .... shall we meet near your house??????"
"Best way to rape a witch, try and drown her first then just when she's gagging for air that's when you enter."

Your view that women need to be fucked right to make them behave in the way you want them to has a very long and very repulsive history. You are on the wrong side of history and I utterly condemn you.

You seriously need to calm down. You are going above and beyond it.

I am also annoyed that the only thing men come to this forum to for is to complain about not getting enough sex.

Why don't they come to ask about their kids struggling at school, or how they're worried about their man-boobs getting bigger, or that they had a really shit day at work because some arrogant arse kept talking over them?

But in this case, I do think that this poster is ready to listen and he is listening, meaning he's light years ahead of the usual male twits. So we should give him a break.

I think she’s gone off you. You do sound a bit clingy.

My experience FWIW is that females often (especially as they get older) don't get 'horny' (especially just by looking at a good looking guy), but need to get aroused (often needing quite a bit of fore play to get 'ready' before they can enjoy sex. My ex used to get the hump and start badgering me because I couldn't initiate it (well I could, but it would have lacked desire and passion) That used to stress me out and make it worse. I went for counselling in the end (he wouldn't attend as it was 'all my fault' and 'something wrong with me',) as my ex was driving me mad pressuring to 'make the move' and constantly asking if I fancied it yet. He actually had a far higher sex drive than me, but wanted me to initiate it! (the counsellor told me to set up 2 days a week for intimacy and back off the other days).
Anyway, I think a little tantalising and gestures with a smile and then backing off with no pressure might help get her on the mood. I believe being asked if you are in the mood is generally quite off putting (although I understand consent is important), and doesn't cause arousal for a female like it can for a male and can achieve the opposite. The fact sex is enjoyed once the process is started, but unable to start the process would be because the foreplay caused the arousal plus she's relaxed. IMO. Anyway, I hope you both sort your situation out and work out what's important. Good Luck.

What exactly are you doing to make her desire you? When she says she needs to get herself in the mood - she means you need to get her in the mood and sex doesn’t start in the bedroom and is so much more than a physical act. Think about what would make you attractive and sexy to her. Send her flowers for no other reason that she’s an amazing wife and Mother and you appreciate her. Send her a song that makes you think of her. Tell her the reasons why you love her that are not about her physical appearance. Be her friend. Hold her hand. Accept her as she is … not as you would have her. Have a wank. Run her a bath and buy her some nice bubble bath. Leave her alone. Kiss her because you love her and not because you want to ‘jump her bones’. Grow up and stop
behaving like a horny teenager …

@UndesirableM - firstly, i think it’s fine for men to ask for advice on here as long as they are being appropriate rather than doing it for kicks (as some men do), and i think you are asking appropriately.

As some have said, i think your anxiety is unnecessary and misplaced and will probably feel quite burdensome to her. My libido has always been reactive - it is a thing and maybe your wife’s situation. Also, it’s normal and natural for frequency and intensity to abate somewhat from the early days. Apart from anything, you now both have a range of other commitments and obligations in your life which will be absorbing her attention especially with children in the mix. No-one is perfect - it sounds like a great deal is going very well including sexually so why focus on the one thing that isn’t quite perfect? You will just add to the pressure your wife is under day to day and that is likely to be counterproductive.

Thank you all for all your insights, which have helped me add some necessary perspective to things, both to those who supported or (constructively) criticised.

I also found this article, which was an interesting read and very insightful as well. We simply have different styles of desire, and that's alright.
I also spoke to my wife last night, and the headspace thing was clearly a bigger thing than I thought. I'm not sure if we'd ever gotten to that topic had it not been for people mentioning it here. So once again, thank you. We also spoke about my occasional verbal and physical affirmations and, for what it's worth, she loves that I do that as she says it makes her feel desired and boosts her confidence, which goes to show that different people have different preferences.

That said, I think this thread has ran its course a bit, so I won't be checking in as frequently anymore. Once again, thank you to all of those who advised and supported, it has been very helpful.

To those who never wanted me here: I sincerely hope your experiences with men on this website improve, as I can only imagine some of the hostility is the results of previous bad experiences. That said, some of the accusations or characterisations made towards me were simply uncalled for and/or false.

I was brought up to always help people who need help, and ask for help when you need help. I never once considered seeking advice here would be so unwelcome to some. For what it's worth, I apologise to those I have made feel uncomfortable, as this was very clearly not my intention.

I’m happy for you that you’ve been able to talk it out. Keeping my fingers crossed for you both.

I think it’s important though, now she’s aware how you’re feeling, that she also makes a conscious effort to make you feel valued too. And before anyone makes the “women shouldn’t have to do x, y or z” comment, I don’t mean sexually. I mean more in a way of making a conscious effort to verbalise how she’s feeling, being the first to initiate a hug or a few occasional words of appreciation?

It’s the little things that count in the bigger picture and maybe knowing she’s attracted to you in that way, even when she’s overwhelmed/not wanting things to lead elsewhere, could make a huge difference to the original problem.