Why is it seen as “wrong” on MN to want a relationship?

[Sunshine231]

I’ve noticed on threads on here that it is seen as really bad to admit to wanting a relationship. Being happy as a single person seems to be pushed as the holy grail. Why is that? Aren’t human beings biologically wired to be with someone? We are literally programmed to dislike being alone. So why is it so shamed when someone admits that they don’t like being alone?

For context I am not long out of a bad relationship and NOT looking for another relationship, before anyone jumps at me. But I can’t deny that the thought of being single forever doesn’t exactly fill me with joy. Clearly I’m wrong for feeling that way but I don’t feel like it’s a choice and maybe some people just don’t enjoy being single??

I’ve been single before for years at a time, I felt the same way then as I do now. So I do suspect I’m just not a person who enjoys being single. But maybe being older it will feel different this time

OP there is nothing wrong with you for not wanting to be single and not finding it to be heavenly. I think a lot of single people feel they have to big up the advantages of it and I have been that person at times. I was that wife who was concerned about becoming single with 2 DC but then when it happened discovered being single was absolutely brilliant FOR ME. I had always been someone to secretly feel a bit sorry for single people and assumed being single was the worst but then enjoying it so much myself I guess was a bit of a hallelujah. I wonder if that’s what some posters experience when they then extol the virtues of singledom, the shock that living man free is actually ok and so over egg it a bit ?

The other thing is where you spend time on this site, I think Relationships is mostly anti relationships on MN !

I totally get you.

I have remained single since ending my marriage but I am older than you. At first I deliberately stayed single because my kids lived with me and I just focused on keeping things simple and stable as they were facing the long exam years. Now it just feels like too much effort and I can't face the apps plus I don't think I want to live with someone again but don't want a casual thing either - very contrary I know!

There are aspects of being single I now like and really appreciate and some I don't. Not having someone to just spontaneously pop to the pub with is one thing I don't like for example.
And I think the world is very much set up for couples and families which makes it hard and can make you feel "othered" and like being single is wrong

I think I agree that we aren't designed to be alone but I'm not sure if that means we have to be in a couple. I think family & close friends can provide love & company.

But, as I say, I am.older than you so I no doubt see things differently & don't mind having a relatively quiet social life.

I think give it time. You are early into this new journey but if you want a relationship go for it and ignore what you see on here.

😆😆

You can’t be serious? The OP was talking about posters on Mumsnet. Even if what you’ve written was remotely plausible instead of very funny, most posters probably live hundreds of miles away from any given poster who asks for relationship advice, yet you think the responses they receive are based on posters not wanting the OPs to compete with them for men?!

Of course it isn't. It's a lot of internalised misogyny. They want you to feel shit about yourself and hate the man who has left you (in their minds) eternally single. If you believe that you can have a better relationship at some point, you won't hate him as viciously and you might even seem like a decent, healthy choice for another man in the future given that you arent consumed with hate.

These are all things they want to avoid. Many women do not want healthy, attractive women on the market. So if they can shame you into not being on the market and/or make you unappealing to anyone decent who is looking on the market, then that works in their favour.

The more unappealing, toxic and/or unavailable women there are, the more likely they are to obtain or keep any decent man they manage to get as there will be fewer better options for him.

Oh I am not especially “worried” I’m just curious. Naturally having recently separated I am drawn to threads from other women who are separated and I just get this overwhelming sense of people pushing single life so heavily and I just wondered why 🤷‍♀️ just to reassure you, even though I’ve said multiple times in this thread, I am not in any way shape or form looking for a relationship or planning to ever look for one

Yes but it isn't like you can go out and just say this to every and anyone and believe me, they will be spreading these ideas whenever they can inperson. It's just that social media and forums like these offer more chance to discuss these topics and weigh in. That is why a woman will post a thread about some issue and posters will try and segue their beliefs on blended families in when it is only slightly related to the topic and not an issue the poster is concerned about.

They can't wait to tell another women that she shouldn't be available to men.

Thank you for your thoughtful response. Age could be a factor. I was in my 20s when I had my longest period of being single. Maybe that is the reason I didn’t enjoy it. Maybe I’m still young enough for the biological “urge” to be strong. Perhaps in 10, 20 years I will feel differently about it 🤷‍♀️

Being part of a social network increases both our chances of survival and reproduction.

Fair enough. But if each time your new relationship has ended and you said the last one was bad, so if it was me I’d want to spend some time thinking about whether this need I felt to be in a relationship in order to be happy may be related to choosing poor partners and the relationships not working out.

Obviously somebody who can take or leave being in a relationship on average is likely to have higher standards and boundaries when deciding whether someone they have met is worth starting a relationship with, than somebody who believes they must have a relationship to be happy so might accept someone who is just “ok” and settle.

That doesn’t mean it’s wrong for you to want to seek another relationship if that is what makes you happier, just that it may be a good idea to make sure first that you are really clear on your red lines for what you will and won’t accept so that you have a higher chance of weeding out the bad apples and don’t have to go through the cycle again.

Oh I do totally agree that being single is “ok”. At least most of the time. I just don’t get this huge sense of joy from it. Shouldn’t life be more than just “ok”? I don’t know the answer to that btw I’m just curious about other people’s views on it

I'm sorry you had such a dreadful experience with clearly such an awful man, but not all women have the same experiences. And women and their mannerisms and household habits are not exactly 100% squeaky clean. I know a number of women who have (many times) left their knickers full of blood after a period in the bathroom sink. Now before anyone accuses me of saying periods are gross and dirty, just don't even! That is a foul thing to do and no-one can deny it!

Sorry but I think this is barmy and verging on paranoid.

As for blended families, there is enormous evidence that the outcomes for children are on average very poor, usually much poorer than being raised by a lone parent. There are, of course, exceptions to exceptions and outliers, as with anything, but posters stating that blended families are usually negative for children is a statistically evidenced fact, not people trying to “stop women being available to men”. Obviously, as well, it is possible to have a serious, committed relationship with someone without blending families, so the two really don’t have much yo do with each other. Someone can be “available to a man” without cohabiting with him and his children!

Exactly. It’s a bit naive to suggest that humans are not designed to seek a mate from a biological and evolutionary standpoint. That whole pack mentality or the idea of a “village” stands but as you rightly point out, that is all part of increasing chances of mating as well as being for survival reasons

But if you’ve just ended a bad relationship, you may feel very differently in a few years. Maybe you’ll want another one and maybe you won’t, who knows? I guess the main things are to build a new life for yourself now so that you are happier with being single, and then if someone does come along later to be very picky and make sure they’re worth the effort!

I do think though that the idea that “single is bad” was ingrained into people through social conditioning and if you approach single life through this negative lens of being “lesser” then it will be harder for you to be happy so it may become a self-fulfilling prophesy.

Really that is interesting and I didn’t know, I once read that the negative effects of divorce on children were shown to be negated somewhat by the parent remarrying (if the relationship is stable that is). Although this was many years ago and that research might be well outdated now.

I wonder how long a couple could keep up a committed relationship while having absolutely nothing to do with each others children. Is that really sustainable long term? If you were together for 10, 20 years for example could you really keep your partner away from your kids completely? Wouldn’t that be a barrier from fully committing to someone? How can you share a life with someone if you never introduce them to your children, when kids are such a huge part of your life as a parent? Again, I don’t know the answer to that and I’m not saying you’re wrong, I’m just curious about it. I personally don’t know any couples who have kids and have kept them completely separate from the relationship, at least not long term.

The urge to seek a mate, evolutionarily speaking, is not for survival as an individual! Survival of the species, yes, but as a woman actually one of the most dangerous things you can do. The purpose of the hormonally driven biological urge to mate was not evolved due to it providing higher life satisfaction.

No most kids in blended fanilies are perfectly happy. What you will find is that where there is abuse or social issues, the majoroty of those will involve relationship breakdown and/or stepfamilies. It's like not all animals being cows, but all cows are animals.

So we don't need to be worried about the majority of people in blende families, especially where other social issues are absent.

No I totally agree with that, maybe I worded it badly. I meant that part of the reason for being part of a community or a pack, from an evolutionary standpoint, is because it increases the chances of finding a mate as well as increasing the chances of survival. The mating part is a separate biological factor, which as you rightly state, is for survival of the species, not the individual. And I don’t think that urge to mate is anything to do with life satisfaction, I just meant that the urge is still there in many people as human beings. Sorry if I was unclear

I do think people need to prioritise existing children before dating, and made that very clear from the start.
I wrote on my dating profile that my kids would always take priority - and I made no apologies for that. I was "forrunate" in terms of being able to find child-free time to date as I shared care of my kids 50/50 with my ex-husband.
I also did not want to date a man with children already for very good reason. I had spent a long time establishing my financial independence, was not prepared to up and move the children from the home which we had settled in post-separation due to my hard work, and was never going to put the expectation on them to share bedrooms when they had their own. Adding children into the mix was never going to be right for us.
If I was going to find someone else, he had to be the right choice for not only me, but for the family (dog included!)

In terms of outcomes for children statistically in order of best to worst it goes 1) children raised by both parents in a happy relationship 2) children raised by co-parents who are amicable 3) children raised by single parents 4) children who live with step parents in stable relationships 5) children raised by loving extended family members 6) children raised by both parents but in an unhappy relationship 7) children raised in blended families 8) children whose parents have multiple unstable cohabiting relationships 9) children raised in state care.

It’s not divorce that damages children, it’s animosity between the parents, or being forced to live with unrelated adults with whom the parents start mew relationships (this poses the greatest risk of unhappiness and abuse overall), or ongoing instability caused by parents having multiple relationships in which the children are involved.

Obviously if someone’s been your partner for years they will know your children. The problem is many people doing that much too fast, and above all people moving in with their new partners and - although many kid themselves - this is almost always negative for the children. Even worse if new children with the new partner are involved and/ or they are also forced to live with the partner’s unrelated children. That’s not necessary because you can have a long-term relationship without living with someone!

The state care having the worst outcomes is tragic and shouldn’t be that way: with a decent system like in Denmark, for example, children in care have outcomes equivalent to those living with their parents. We just don’t fund it properly which is appalling.

Not being in a romantic relationship does not equal being alone.

You are failing to grasp this.

I don’t think I have ever seen a post that says it is wrong to want to be in a relationship. I’ve seen hundreds saying it is better to be single than in the wrong relationship. Then there are people who say “never again “ but I don’t think they say it’s wrong to want a relationship, only that they have given up trying to find one

I can understand this. I’m mid 40s, haven’t been married and don’t have children. Therefore by society’s metrics, I’m a failure.

I did laugh at fat and unattractive and in my 50s 🤣

This is really interesting thank you. I knew that children raised by both biological parents have the best outcomes (if the relationship is stable) but the order of outcomes for other scenarios is surprising to me. I wonder why a blended family is worse for kids than just being raised living with a step parent. Perhaps because of bias of each parent towards their biological kids? Or step-sibling dynamics maybe.

Also the only scenario you haven’t listed is children raised by co parenting in which the relationship is not amicable. I wonder where that lands in terms of outcomes for the kids 🤔