Are decent relationship prospects in your forties really this limited?

[munchiefox]

I'm single and somewhat dating in my 40's but its tough. I look at myself and my single friends and either we can't find anyone decent or those that have are accepting literal scraps in terms of the quality of partner just to have someone.

There is an abundance of men with nothing to show for 40+ years of life no qualifications, no savings, no home, no friends. Men with serious issues with addictions such as porn, drink, drugs, gambling and so on, men who are abusive or cheat, men with other debilitating personal situations and habits which make them a liability rather than a viable partner. Essentially men without these liabilities just have more choice and can and do go younger.

Men who are just not emotionally available either because they are avoidant or just after sex or they are still hung up on an ex partner or wife. This is actually a bigger one than I realised as there is actually research showing that men typically do not ever really get over an ex or at least at a far lower rate than women who are more likely to take time out from dating to truly grieve and move on so that their feelings towards an ex become neutral. I think something like 40% of single middle aged men never move on and remain deeply emotionally attached to an ex in perpetuity, another 40% compartmentalise and are able to have another relationship but still on some level pine for their ex and only the other 10 to 20% are able to fully heal and move on in the way most women do. I think this tendency to hold on to an ex emotionally is quite damaging to new relationships, many of us can relate to that feeling of being a placeholder or being swept off our feet only for the man to turn cold when the thrill subsides and he still misses his ex. I am not any man's booby prize.

So not only do you have to sift through those men with nothing to show for themselves, and probably looking to leech off you, move into your home and benefit from your hard work but you have to weed out men with serious issues of all kinds and men who are still in love with someone else and unwilling to do the work it takes to heal but still want a woman to be a placeholder and caretaker. The chances of finding a man like that who you find attractive and have something in common with seems to remote to me.

I know women in my circle with their shit together in every respect who have accepted men with nothing and no one, no savings, living in shared houses with no qualifications or real prospects, none are even attractive. A friend of mine recently moved such a man into her home and now he has his feet under the table he is starting to display abusive and controlling behaviour all while bringing nothing to the table except a bunch of unrealistic ideas for women to support him in. I have to ask myself is being able to post couple photos on social media worth it.

I do think there are good men out there but at this age most of them are married and those who do wind up single are not single for long and rare as hen's teeth.

The pickings are just so slim and problematic for the most part that most women are probably better off single unless you are very lucky and meet that one in a million guy who is mature and at least somewhat healed.

I think he would be an excellent parent

His parents are both around well into their 90s - he was late 50s when he said this

It's not for me, but some people are just full of energy, aren't they?

Anyway, his plan did not work! He's been sniffing around after they ended up in marriage counselling, but I'm not really up for it because he needs to actually leave her first!

@Huckleberries I think that is rather unlikely.
First of all, I think you said he was very nearly 60 when you were dating? So say it had worked and you agreed to have a child the earliest really that would have happened, if at all, he would be around 62/63 when baby was born. So 70 plus when the child turned 10.
My husband became a father for the first (and definitely the last time) when he was 45. This wasn't through choice and absolutely no regrets. But... he will admit that of course it isn't always easy keeping up with a very active 6 yo. No way would he be even entertaining the idea at 60 plus, not even at 50 plus (he's 50 now). Zero way.
How old are you may I ask?
I'm also confused...do you mean you're dating him but he hasn't left his wife?!!

No, I was being vague sorry

He wasn’t nearly 60 he was 56

No, we are not dating. It’s just now his marriage has gone wrong, he is wanting to meet up for coffee.

I said no. If he actually left her and moved out, then I would consider it.

@Huckleberries Do you think he still wants kids? How old are you?
Also don't trust a man who hasn't yet left his wife but "wants to meet up for...err...coffee."
He sounds vile.
Is he wealthy perchance?

@Cheeseandolivesplease too old for kids now put it that way

He’s actually really nice. Why do you think he sounds vile?

I think a lot of men won’t make the jump to leave a partner unless they think they’ve got someone else in the wings

he is quite well off - I’m pretty sure that’s why his wife married him. I mean that sounds harsh but her behaviour before they got married and her behaviour after… I’ve seen that in other cases. The person has got what they wanted and they think the spouse is then trapped.

anyway, I’m not going to do anything stupid.

I don’t know if he still thinks he wants kids. I politely declined the message asking to meet for coffee and I haven’t heard from him since. I used to check in occasionally to see how his parents were doing but now I won’t because I don’t want anything to be misinterpreted.

I think men let themselves go when they get married and just as some men age well, age isn’t kind to them all, just as some women age better than others.
I met my husband when we were young and he had hair and a toned body, we have grown together and raised our kids are still very happy in our 40s but gradually he’s now overweight and lost most of his hair but I still love him like the day I married him and always will but that’s because to me he’s still that same gorgeous man I married and but I would not look twice at him now if I was single and I didn’t know him as I wouldn’t see who he once was.

I am not the same as I was when he met me but we’re still strong and I’m nearly 4 years older than him and pretty sure he wouldn’t be looking at me now either if he was single and he didn’t know me.

Well, the same is true the other way round. Dated on and off over a few occasions in last 3 years and much of what you say is true of women.

Issues with wanting to commit, not over ex's, poor finances, unhealthy lifestyle... It really is the same reversed.

I was that man who got elbowed by his wife, not because of those things you mention (although I am not perfect), just more that we both drifted, and she chose to walk rather than work at it. Not because of cheating or using her as a servant etc...

There are plenty of good men out there, as there are women. Just they tend not to be available for long as they get snapped up! I have a few friends who have been single and like me they are in good health, keep fit, house proud, interesting, no addictions, good job etc...

@Huckleberries
"I think a lot of men won’t make the jump to leave a partner unless they think they’ve got someone else in the wings."
And you genuinely think this is a decent man?!!
And how do you know how his wife has behaved within the marriage?

Eh? You can be a decent man and not want to have children, or raise children that aren't yours. OP herself does not want to date men who have children.

Sounds like your friends all have low self-esteem.

Yes dating in your 30s and 40s is tough. I believe it's similar for men too though - lots of ghosting, hardly any matches, which leads to barely any dates.

People everywhere are quitting dating apps out of frustration.

I dated for a few years before meeting my partner. You have to have strong boundaries, and don't settle. Otherwise you'll just end up miserable.

That was my experience of online dating in my early/mid 40s.

married men, porn addicts, alcoholics, weirdos with kinks, cock lodgers and women-haters.

I would never do online dating again.

I would focus on trying to meet men in real life but also focus on building your own happy life without a partner.

I do think unfortunately that too many middle aged men have little to offer compared to middle aged women.

My experience:-

I come across a lot of men late 30s and 40s that look very good on paper - handsome, great careers…. but they’re really emotionally unavailable and have very regimented lives.

They are all obsessed with intense spark whereas to me, I prefer slow burn where it has the multiplier effect. Thunderbolts and lightening is a red flag to me 😂

Good for you. But these men are incredibly rare. The dating apps know what they're doing as the option to filter out people if they have children is a premium paid-for feature.

I hear from a lot of women that dating goes well and then as soon as they mention that they have children they are ghosted immediately by the men.

@NowStartingOver And that's a great thing! I agree that men who actually genuinely accept a ready-made family are rare, but that does not mean one should lower the bar.
No decent man would ghost a woman just because she had children.
Interestingly enough, when I first started out online dating and wrote my profile, it did of course mention my children but what I was looking for was probably a bit "wishy washy."
I went on a number of first dates, but none of them were right and I got sick of dating men not looking to accept us a whole package. And also men who were forceful about "gender stereotypes" and not happy about me buying drinks etc. Yuck. I'm not interested in your money or being provided for, thanks!
In my frustration I logged back in and updated my profile to reflect that fact that I was independent, assertive and no longer going to be messed around. If my date wasn't interested in understanding that my kids would always remain my priority then please jog on. I clearly listed my non-negotiables. I stated that I didn't need a man in any regard; the one I would chose is because I wanted him.
About a week later I had a message actually "challenging" one of my items listed - he said that the right man would in fact respect the fact that my children were the most important thing in my life automatically.
Chatting to him it soon became clear that he was very genuine and secure enough in himself to embrace my self-worth and independence (lots of men - and women - often feel quite threatened by a strong woman I have found).
We've been together now for about 10 years and we are very happily married. My two kids are adults now and he continues to be a great stepdad and role model.

You say "I know nice guys but I'm not dating them so I don't have to encounter their baggage, their private vices and addictions so for men we don't have that relationship with it's very hard to judge how quality they really are," however you seem confident that you can judge the average single woman's quality, and assess it to be far higher.

I have single male friends and single female friends. They're all great as friends, but gun to my head, I usually could say why they're single.

I won't argue with you, your point is valid, i think what i'm trying to say is that if someone is really into you they will overcome most hurdles to make it happen, maybe i could have phrased it better.

I totally agree with this . I’m a reasonably attractive, retired professional woman . I’m 64 and 5 years ago met a man two years older who is also attractive and semi retired . He’s much wealthier than me but I’m comfortable financially. I meant him 4 months after joining a dating app. I met a lot of really decent men who just weren’t right for me. I don’t recognise the description by the OP about all men on dating apps.

I think it depends on what you want, not what's available. The vast majority of the "good men" have already been snapped up. The ones available are in the same boat as the women looking for them. If you're 40 something, with young kids, and more importantly, another man in your life (kids father) then I don't think you will be a man's first choice. Even the ones with kids wouldn't want another man having constant contact with "their" partner. And it tends to be different for men. Most dont have full time custody, but we generally do. So they "take our kids on" as part of the deal. Whereas we tend to get theirs at weekends and holidays. It's definitely different for us.

This is the important point. We have a fundamentally broken “sorting system” for people meeting each other. Partly because of social change.

I also tend to think the pool of people you will find if single in your 40s will be heavily skewed to lots of people who have already failed to either form or maintain a relationship. Some times that will be due to factors outside of their control but a decent number will be people who are just bad at romantic relationships. Perhaps, they have the wrong standards, perhaps they can’t understand what the opposite sex wants, but whatever the reason many of those who wanted long term relationships and are good at getting and keeping them will mostly be out of the pool.

I would hate to be in that pool looking and I know some lovely people who are single in that older pool, yet most of them were people that you knew were at a higher risk of ending up there.

As a comparison a friend was widowed very suddenly in her early 40s, however once the grieving was done she was rapidly back in a stable relationship with a baby on they way. You could tell if she wanted a new relationship she would find a good one, she seems to have done just that.

You seem to be complaining that there are not lots of men who hold a very unusual set of characteristics:
Not having kids;
Not wanting his own biological kids;
Wanting to be in a relationship with someone who has kids;
Is really understanding of the nature of being a parent (and never make you feel like he saw them as baggage even on bad days…).

If a man doesn’t want his own biological kids normally he isn’t going to want a relationship which includes kids. So you would be looking at men who are infertile, have a hereditary disease they are avoiding passing on, but actively wanted children in spite of this. That will be really rare.

@Thisistyresome

This is the important point. We have a fundamentally broken “sorting system” for people meeting each other. Partly because of social change.

Nail on the head. It seems that OLD has become the default way to "find" a partner, but realistically, it's probably one of the worst ways because of all the chancers and dross who are perpetually on it, meaning so much time is wasted.

"Ye Olde days" when people just met organically through friends at the local pub/bar, dance hall, disco, are all but gone. Even at Unis, there's fewer students now frequenting the bars and clubs as alcohol seems to be losing fashion (plus risk of spiked drinks etc), and especially with some lectures etc still being online, there's less opportunity for youngsters to meet.

It really does come down to hoping to meet via work, clubs or societies, sports etc., these days. Work is obviously a potential high risk area in view of potential pitfalls of workplace romances, and particularly workers or people with young children don't really have much time for sports, clubs and societies!

I really don't know the answer. But I really don't think it's OLD!

Thats what i did 🤭

@munchiefox my DP is far more mature, hard working, emotionally avaliable, better at communicating, takes on his share of housework and helping with children.....he is astoundingly better than most of the men I met my age!

Being obsessed with the intense spark is like saying you like to get high. I mean I get it it can feel very pleasurable to have that intense new relationship energy but that's all about novelty and projection and not really about love and true connection at all. I think many men even as they age are still hung up on this because many of them are in terms of self knowledge and emotional depths still like boys compared to women. Also those very regimented lives you mention probably obsessed with the gym or some other dopamine inducing activities are often about not confronting themselves and their baggage. They want the intense thrill of a new hot relationship to distract them from their pain and unresolved issues so they love bomb women until the initial thrill wears off and then they get restless and start looking elsewhere because you are no longer giving them the high they crave. It isn't about the women or the relationship at all it's about getting high and numbing out their emptiness.

this does sound pretty hypocritical, you don’t want A man who who children from another relationship- but he has too accept your kids from a previous relationship , how do expect that to work them , you are ruling out all existing fathers 🤷🏼‍♂️

Absolutely I totally agree with you, your description of the kind of men on dating apps is spot on, literally they are the men other women threw away and usually for good reason.