Did he cross my boundaries despite saying he just got carried away?

[SofiaJessica4]

I'm a woman in my late 30s and have been dating a guy for a few weeks, and getting pretty close with lots of feelings involved. On our fifth date, he came to my home for dinner and we ended up in my lounge making out.

I'd explicitly stated before previously that I wanted to wait for sex, I'd said that on the day too, and when we started cuddling/kissing. I said I was open to messing around but no more. At one point he was touching me and I got quite overwhelmed, and had to stop as I was on the point of crying (I have some trauma around sex and sensory issues which he knows).

Around this time he took most of my clothes off, and I didn't understand why as sex was not on the table. Anyway, after I'd calmed down from my overwhelm episode, I gave him a hug, lying on top of him but not moving. I then realised he was trying to go for PIV by stealth without me knowing what was going on, when I got off him immediately. I was pretty shocked by what he was doing to be honest.

I'm not in contact with him now, but we had a discussion the next day and he said lines were blurred and he got carried away. He does have ADHD. I think he knew what he was doing and was chancing it. Especially as I'd been practically in tears 5 minutes earlier, I felt it was clear I didn't want to have sex but was happy to touch a bit but no more.

I find his attitudes around sex quite odd to be honest as he said he needs intimacy to "be reciprocal" ie we're either doing full sex, or nothing - but he didn't communicate this beforehand - and also he said some weird stuff about wanting sex 'to prove I liked him'.

I have autism and I get confused when words and actions misalign. His actions to me say, he's unsafe and he intended to cross my boundaries, but his words say different. Would appreciate some input as I'm getting stuck in my head on it. Obviously there's what I think happened, what he thinks and then reality, but the cognitive dissonance is real right now

Everything above, and also:

Autistic women are incredibly vulnerable to sexual assault. 90% of us have suffered sexual assault during our lives, compared to one third of all women.

Part of the reason for this is that our "social brains" are the first thing to go offline under pressure. It's impossible to say "no" when you've lost the ability to speak.

I and other posters outlined other reasons, such as feeling scared around others and feeling like we are the problem being "a day ending in Y".

When an autistic woman tells her date that she's autistic, that should be a cue for him to listen to her words and, if necessary, ask for clarification like "I'm a bit confused because you said you didn't want sex but you are hugging me naked and I'm getting mixed messages here". He should not be "trying his luck" with her, not when she might become non-verbal under pressure. That he would do so makes him a predator.

Obviously . Your point is ?

Good Lord ., a hug are you joking?

It is sad for women, that once they are past childhood ( and sometimes even when they are still children) it is hard to come across a comforting male hug does not begin searching for sex.

No, I'm not joking. She's just experienced the distress of overwhelm and a near-shutdown. Why wouldn't she want a hug?

You just denied that this is your responsibility when you said "I don't need to tell them".

I think he decided to take a chance and see if you’d stop him, which is out of order.

But it also doesn’t sound like you’re ready for this. Crying from being touched, not knowing how your clothes fell off and then lying naked on top of this guy- none of that sounds wise to me in your current headspace. Do you have a therapist you can work this through with? I think perhaps you would end up in a better place long term if you stop seeing this (or any) guy now and spend some time working this stuff through.

Sorry this happened to you op and I hope you're feeling OK.

You should be able to state your boundaries and a man should respect what you've said and not get carried away, or attempt to "persuade" you, or do anything you don't want.

But realistically, men can't be trusted until you've known them a considerable length of time. The old saying "a stiff prick has no conscience" still holds true for a lot of men - and getting a rape conviction for this sort of scenario would be incredibly difficult.

This is why I've always made the decision to only be alone in private with men I definitely want to fuck. I just won't chance it. Maybe the guy I've been seeing is a decent respectful dude. Maybe he's a rapist. I'm not going to know until a lot longer into seeing him. I've been raped in two separate long term relationships, so I'm probably more cautious than most women. (Thankfully my danger radar is a lot more functional these days.)

As other posters have said, maybe you're not quite ready yet to start having sexual relationships? 🌸

I note that when I generalise about neurotypical people similarly to how they generalise about autistic people, I cop a deletion.

It's not the posters who state that they are autistic who are making excuses for the man here. Just saying...

This is why I've always made the decision to only be alone in private with men I definitely want to fuck.

This precludes the possibility of changing your mind, including for reasons like realising that you forgot your pill that morning or are coming down with a migraine.

It doesn't help women at all if we are afraid to test what happens if we say "no". I've lost count of the number of times I've had sex that I didn't entirely want (e.g. it went on too long and I was getting sore, often getting cystitis afterwards) because I didn't want to tell him "no" and find out that he was a rapist. I bet I'm not the only woman to have done this. In those circumstances, we are governed by fear, and we are also refusing to test whether the man we are with is bad, which can only ever hurt us in the long run. If he's a wrong'un, better to know, surely?

I've ended up frightened of sex because of getting cystitis so much. But according to some posters, I'm a "pricktease" if I say "stop" to protect my own health.

Men, as a class, aren't worth this kind of hassle.

I know it's so offensive to even say that, I'm aghast that's even been put in. 😥

Like it'd been an excuse anyway but to imply that people with ADHD are capable of that just hurts my heart.

I am sick of seeing the bullshit on here.

Men with ADHD are as capable of rapey behaviour as other men.

ADHD doesn't cause the behaviour (obviously). Being a selfish, entitled misogynist causes it.

No @SofiaJessica4 what he said to you about reality being different is definitely an enormous red flag and he is pushing your boundaries to see how far he can go and you being confused is playing into his mindset. You've been made to feel uncomfortable. Absolutely, dump him, he doesn't have your feelings in mind.

Men with ADHD are as capable as any other man of raping. Being neurodivergent doesn't preclude being an arsehole.

While boundaries got blurred.
Your express wish for no sex is an absolute.
Especially knowing of your past trauma even in the heat of the moment he should have asked or given you a chance to reiterate your desire for the boundaries set.
He didn't and that shows his character.
The fact he said there needs to be reciprocal intimacy, or full sex or nothing. Thats just bizzare and concerning.
There are times my wife just wants a bit of foreplay and nothing else and thats fine. We always go with the lowest request if that makes sense. So if she just wants a bit of fun and no sex then that is where the line is. Same if thats what I want.
It is never ok to push that line without consent.
I hope you find someone who understands that and treats you with respect and understanding.

OP, I'm so sorry you had this encounter with this horrible man. I'm skipping a few pages here but I've read your replies to others.

From your post, what I see is that you got triggered by the intimacy to the point of crying because of your trauma, and things didn't stop but continued whilst you were in a disorientated state. I'm wondering if you had a physical/emotional flashback or disassociated? For me that would explain why you feel confused about the details of why your clothes came off for example.

I've similar trauma in my past (SA), and had to navigate this in relationships. One person who knew used it to take advantage of me aka he also assaulted me. What you've recounted sounds very similar. This guy knew about your past but it didn't matter to him because he kept going.

My husband knows about my past. I've been in that situation, suddenly everything is too much, and I'm in tears. Sometimes I just feel a bit clocked out or hesitant, sometimes I don't even know fully why and I want to continue even though my body is screaming it's a bad idea. My husband always stops immediately. He can see I'm not all there somewhere. Even if I say I'm ok when I'm not, because it isn't normal to have sex with someone that is vulnerable and upset, especially when you know they have sexual trauma.

Some "charming" people have said you blurred lines, I couldn't disagree more. If he was confused about what you wanted after saying no, why didn't he ask? Telling someone before sex that you have sexual trauma makes it pretty damn clear that sex is a vulnerable space you need to navigate clearly and safely. Even telling someone this is huge, as you're asking them to show you they can be trusted to hold you safely in the relationship. They enter that space with you with that knowledge, knowing you are placing trust in them. To throw it out the window because they are horny is horrific and proves they can't be trusted.

It's so hard to navigate relationships with trauma, as it makes you realise how many people have f*cked up views of sex and intimacy. Some replies here show that. But people who are worthy of your trust do exist. Someone who cares about you will never act the way this man has.

Op I'm so sorry this happened. I'm audhd so I think lots of us can automatically think we are at fault for not communicating (although i feel many of us end up over explaining in mutilate ways to avoid the miss communicating thus making ourselves very very clear in our boundaries)and we have the double whammy as women that large portions of society blame us anyway when it comes to sex because we are wrongly seen as the gate keepers. Men are 100% capable or listening and restraining themselves but you wouldn't think it given our society.

I don't think this particular man was ever going to do anything but boundary push no matter what you did or didn't do.

With the right man op you can stop mid any sexual action , cuddle naked and it lead nowhere. It's finding the right man first. Unfortunately there are so many dangerous men that we do have to protect ourselves more than should be necessary.
Please don't let this experience damage your trust with yourself and your gut. You read the situation right.

Exactly. Thank you!

Exactly my point thank you! It's you know, men!

to imply that people with ADHD are capable of that just hurts my heart

You've clarified since, but your initial statement, which I quoted, indicated hat you think that "people with ADHD" aren't capable of rape when ADHD men are, just like other men. This is why you got two rather miffed replies. You made a typing error, fair, but at the same time Garlic and I cannot be blamed for replying to what you wrote and not what you meant.

I get why is confusing for you and I'm concerned you didn't know why your clothes came off. He took them off because he was trying to fuck you okay? Sorry to be blunt about it. He should not have done that when you explicitly told him before hand that you did not want to have sex. He also shouldn't have tried to penetrate you and yes he was 'chancing it'. I think you need someone who can really understand the impact of your autism on sex, someone really patient and kind.

@OneFunGreyFish thank you for this. I agree. I actually luckily have had long relationships with very patient attuned partners in the past particularly when it came to physical intimacy which helped to heal a lot of things and learn about myself. A big element of what goes on for me is sensory overstimulation. Because previous partners have been caring and careful, I have made an assumption future partners would be. I shouldn't have assumed this man would be of course.

No worries, just screen them pretty carefully and communicate clearly. If you get that spidey tingle, get out!! There are alot of wonderful men and a few losers that take advantage. But you can spot that I'm sure 😊