Did he cross my boundaries despite saying he just got carried away?

[SofiaJessica4]

I'm a woman in my late 30s and have been dating a guy for a few weeks, and getting pretty close with lots of feelings involved. On our fifth date, he came to my home for dinner and we ended up in my lounge making out.

I'd explicitly stated before previously that I wanted to wait for sex, I'd said that on the day too, and when we started cuddling/kissing. I said I was open to messing around but no more. At one point he was touching me and I got quite overwhelmed, and had to stop as I was on the point of crying (I have some trauma around sex and sensory issues which he knows).

Around this time he took most of my clothes off, and I didn't understand why as sex was not on the table. Anyway, after I'd calmed down from my overwhelm episode, I gave him a hug, lying on top of him but not moving. I then realised he was trying to go for PIV by stealth without me knowing what was going on, when I got off him immediately. I was pretty shocked by what he was doing to be honest.

I'm not in contact with him now, but we had a discussion the next day and he said lines were blurred and he got carried away. He does have ADHD. I think he knew what he was doing and was chancing it. Especially as I'd been practically in tears 5 minutes earlier, I felt it was clear I didn't want to have sex but was happy to touch a bit but no more.

I find his attitudes around sex quite odd to be honest as he said he needs intimacy to "be reciprocal" ie we're either doing full sex, or nothing - but he didn't communicate this beforehand - and also he said some weird stuff about wanting sex 'to prove I liked him'.

I have autism and I get confused when words and actions misalign. His actions to me say, he's unsafe and he intended to cross my boundaries, but his words say different. Would appreciate some input as I'm getting stuck in my head on it. Obviously there's what I think happened, what he thinks and then reality, but the cognitive dissonance is real right now

wanting sex 'to prove I liked him'

Make that remark the last remark of his you ever hear.

So you was not upset when he removed your clothes?
Did you cry or was you just on the verge of tears? If the verge, did you tell him you were upset?
Did you say no during the encounter in bed or was the no only said prior to that?
This comment reads a bit different to how I read your OP. I don't mean that in a way that I doubt your experience, it's my interpretation of it that I'm not sure of.

@Lesina I shouldn't have let him take my clothes off, I agree, and I was confused in the moment. I did not agree to sex at any point, I was explicit multiple times that I didn't want sex. There can be consent for multiple different sex acts , consent is not a blanket thing, I've not said I was raped, you put that equivalence out there not me.

People are saying "actions speak louder than words"... does that apply to OP as well, or just the guy?
Because OP's actions were to get hot and heavy, get undressed, allow naked "sexual touching" and lie on top of him naked?
I hate victim blaming at the best of times, but come on OP, you need better boundaries!

But also, yes of course this man is a scumbag, and if he's so readily able to blame his shit behaviour on ADHD, then you can bet he'll do it again and again, for all types of shit behaviour. And sex to "prove you like him"... ermm no, that is a massive red flag. No one is owed sex.

Lying on top of him naked was a bad idea and blurred boundaries.,

You are missing the part where she said no sex though. No is no is no.

You sound a bit vulnerable. Maybe it would help you to meet men you’re dating in public places until you know you can trust them completely. It sounds like you need a bit more time and a few more dates to identify the red flags.

Define sex?

Penetrative sex

If he thought your signals were indicating you had changed your mind about sex in the moment, he should ask and verbally confirm. My DH has ADHD and he wouldn't 'get confused' in this way.

Yes, he violated your very clearly communicated boundaries. That is not OK. It is not up to you to make excuses for him, it is up to you to protect yourself. If you have cut contact with him, you have done the right thing, and really the only possible thing. I might say differently if this was someone with whom you had a long and happy history and something happened that was out of character, perhaps as a result of a traumatic brain injury. In that case, I'd say protect yourself but also keep a hold of your longstanding and mainly happy relationship with him and support him as he gets diagnosis and help. In THIS case, it has been "a few weeks"; let him go with no regrets whatsoever. If he pursues you - and I suspect he might - block him.

That’s not consent to sex. That’s consent to lying naked on top of him
foreplay isn’t consent to sex
you can withdraw consent at any time
it should be freely given, enthusiastic consent which someone who was crying isn’t really able to give

From this, it sounds as though you would excuse a customer raping a stripper.

Leaving opinions on sex entertainment out of it, are you really saying men can't be blamed for inflicting non-consensual sex on half-naked women?

You say you get confused when words and actions misalign. Maybe so does he? You said sex was off the table, but then let him undress you and laid on top of him naked. I think he pushed his luck, but I think he did so because the lines had become blurry as a result of your words and actions misaligning.

From my understanding when you said stop he stopped both times? Firstly when you got upset and secondly when he tried to initiate sex and you said stop. It seems he did respond to a clear instruction.

Don't see him again, but think going forward how best to get your words and actions to align.

My god, @Lesina you're horrible with your comments.

And why do you keep saying "entire male"? He's a human, not a animal.

@SofiaJessica4 yes, he crossed your boundaries, and he sounds way too pushy for this early on in a relationship (and generally), you made it clear you did not want penetrative sex, he tried to chance it. His bullshit comments during the discussion are just that, bullshit.

Don't ever see him again, you'll never be able to relax and worried he'll slip it in, any chance he gets. And the fact he chanced this without a condom on is fucking appalling.

@NuffSaidSam yes that's right when I said stop he did, this is where I'm confused about his actions, whether he was genuinely confused, or if knew he was knowingly crossing a boundary. He said something to me like "women often say they won't have sex early on, or 'I make a man wait' but then reality is different". I didn't know that was a thing. I have no idea how other women / and men - are as I've mostly only had relationships with autistic awkward men who would be too scared to push anything with anyone. So I don't know what is 'normal' for ADHDers or for that matter neurotypical men

I think lines were blurred on both sides. You did wrong and so did he. You aren’t ready for a sexual relationship yet and he wants one . Block him and don’t see him again.

Why are you having casual sexual relationships when you clearly cant handle it? You know its not compulsory right?

OP, this man is bad news. It doesn’t matter whether he got carried away or not. He shouldn’t be getting carried away. Particularly if a woman is crying and has repeatedly said no.

If someone if taking your clothes off, and you don’t want them to, it doesn’t matter why they’re doing it. They don’t get to just do that.

If someone has appeared to agree to your boundaries, and then violates them, they are not trustworthy.

Keep safe, chuck this one back.

I have ADHD and have never tried raping someone. That's a shit excuse. He KNEW.

Actions speak louder than words. Run like fuck.

A man who tries to put his dick in you when you've just been crying is not a good man.

What kind of man would want to put his dick in a woman who has just been crying? What kind of man undresses a woman whilst she is crying?

I've gone to bed naked with men who weren't interested in me and nothing happened because they didn't want it to, even though I did. A woman being naked doesn't compel a man to fuck her, so the people blaming you can sod off.

He crossed boundaries, he's unsafe to be around, and he's not able to be trusted.

His reaction to you being triggered by trauma, and distressed, was to strip you naked and try to have sex with you, despite you clearly stating you weren't consenting to sex. Whether he got 'carried away' or not, he knew you were upset and non-consenting, and his reaction should have been concern and empathy, not the pursuit of his own sexual pleasure. It's also attempted rape. Don't see him again.

Entirely separately to that, while you do seem to have stated your boundaries clearly, I think you may need to work on actually holding them in the moment, to protect yourself against boundary-crossers like this man. Not because you should be blamed for his behaviour, or because you're at fault, but to help protect yourself against men like this.

You sound very passive, from what you've said. When he began to take your clothes off, why did you cooperate? If it was fear of how he'd react if you tried to stop him, I totally understand that and don't blame you at all – but if you were just confused and cooperative, then I think in future relationships it would be better to have a rule of 'no clothes off unless I choose to take them off' cemented in your head beforehand.

Him trying to take your clothes off when you were distressed should have instinctively pinged a red flag for you in your head, and the fact that it didn't means you need to deliberately establish that red flag connection. When you're distressed and triggered, a man should be blatantly retreating sexually, deescalating the situation and offering platonic comfort.

I'm sorry he behaved that way. Definitely don't see him again.