Pinkpoet support thread (TW for SA)

[PinkPoetAgain1]

Just starting a new thread for those who are following/supporting

I’m all over the place mentally at the moment as I said in my last thread but I’m still listening xx

Yes I have asked him but he’s not keen.
he says he thinks the therapist and I will take sides against him
so that’s Parked for now
I do still feel im getting a lot out of therapy though , speaking to someone openly is very hard but I feel it is helpful

The thing is it’s not only two rapes really. The majority of their sexual interactions are non-consensual. If you know that if you say no enough times, you’ll be raped anyway, then none of those sexual experiences are really consensual because consent can’t be freely and enthusiastically given within that dynamic. Those are the incidents that stand out to Poet I think because it must be so devastating to not be able to pass things off as him having misunderstood or it being an accident or any other of the myriad of excuses she’s made for his behaviour to try to reconcile the man she thinks loves her with the way her abusive husband actually behaves and who he really is.

I think having a safe space is really important. I also think that not challenging the narrative is problematic because it’s become a way, in the past, of almost co-signing that this is all acceptable. Therapy is her safe space as I think her therapist is trying to work with her but is trapped really by the fact that she doesn’t want to leave.

In terms of what the right thing to do is, once again I don’t think OP has any intention of leaving. She has said multiple times she doesn’t want to. When she returned to him this time (having not told anyone anything!), she said she’d done so because she ‘needed’ him. She hasn’t said once throughout all of the threads that she wants to leave. What she wants is to make him change but that will never happen. And so change or progress is not possible.

Unfortunately, nobody knows about this and so nobody can safeguard her children from the emotional and psychological effects of witnessing the coercive control and the sexual dynamic.

Many women return to their abusers but if they’ve had contact with services, they will be referred on and so at least the relevant authorities are aware. It’s seen as the women’s choice to return, as adults we have autonomy and obviously you can never stop someone from returning no matter how painful it is to watch it happen. However the children don’t. They don’t have a voice and they don’t have a choice and that’s why referrals are put in place.

I can understand that speaking to someone 'out loud' can be helpful for venting emotions that are building up inside us, or for validating our feelings that something is really, really wrong.

But part of therapy is also about taking control of our lives and making changes. Real changes. I'm not talking about saying "Don't do that" (which is a good thing) but about putting yourself in a place where you don't have to say "Don't do that" because you are where they can't harm you. Do you feel you're actually working towards that?

By taking sides he means ‘two women will tell me it’s wrong to rape women but I don’t want to stop raping the woman I live with (having recently admitted out loud that I know I’ve raped her before, shortly before raping her again) so I’m not going to go’.

It’s for the best he doesn’t, of course, as counselling with an abuser is not recommended or safe, but don’t forget Poet, he knows he is a rapist. He told you he raped you before and was trying to avoid doing it again.

Then he raped you (the next day I think) in your friends home, just like he did in your parents home. At your friends with your children in a room nearby and at your parents with your beautiful baby in your stomach, heavily pregnant.

I can only keep hoping that you can find a way to get out of this terribly abusive, damaging and devastating existence soon for your children’s sake as much as yours x

It's really good you're still making notes, just make sure to keep them well hidden.

Did you ask him why he thinks you and the counsellor will gang up on him, and more importantly, for what? His answer will be very telling. Does he even get uncomfortable when the rapes come up in conversation?

Good, because you shouldn't go to couples' therapy with your rapist. It can only be harmful, not helpful. I still can't believe your therapist suggested that! I'm happy you feel good about therapy, but given what your therapist suggested, I do wonder whether it's helping you or just enabling your abusive relationship. What goals are you working towards in therapy?

I'm glad that things are quieter too, but I imagine that just means you're placating him with sex whenever he wants, in order to avoid him openly forcing it on you. It makes me very sad for you that you feel as though you're making happy memories with a man that you know enjoys raping you. You deserve better.

How is his own therapy going OP? The one that was part of his promises to “start over” and enable him to become a better man for you?

He won't want documented evidence that he is a rapist.

It's all OK at the moment? Have you asked the children about their emotional regulation? Terror mixed with relief mixed with anxiety mixed with scared anticipation as mummy's ok right now but it will change.
I can't pussyfoot anymore. You're minimising and being ridiculous. You are the adult who can save them and you're not.
Good luck

@PinkPoetAgain1

' some happy memories being made which probably Seems a bit silly but it means a lot to me '

Are you hoping / praying / desperately thinking that making some happy memories will block out your knowledge / memories of all the rapes and all the constant sexual abusing.

This thread and the many before it is full of supportive, practical and emotional advice. Women sharing stories of their bravery escaping abusive relationships. Women giving out contact details for organisations that can help. Women investing a lot of emotional support.

And it’s just… died a death. It’s really disheartening.

I can understand why Poet has stepped away for now - she's obviously not in the right place to be confronting the issue. She's likely feeling pulled between facing up to what feels like a very scary reality, and burying her head in the sand, and I'm sure hearing people's concern about her children has made it all more difficult.

I hope the threads have been helpful to her though, and I hope that at some point she might come back, having moved forward a little in her journey.

Regardless of that though, it's actually been really heartwarming to see usernames become familiar as people come back consistently and provide such wise, caring support, and share their own experiences ❤

It's obviously a lot easier for Poet to minimise his actions, try to excuse them that all men are like this etc, rather than realise she's doing irreparable damage to her kids by staying, and her husband's abuse is so bad, they'd be adults by the time he was released from prison if he reported it.

Much easier to pretend all is fine...

I suspect that given it's the holidays, amd the kids will be at home, and potentially noisy, she's letting herself be abused so he doesn't snap at them.

And thinks that's good parenting from both of them.

Heartbreaking.

I told him NO sleep stuff
He hasn’t

Has he stuck to this OP? I would be amazed because assaulting you whilst you are unconscious is his favourite thing and I don't think he will ever give it up.

Men in particular get very fixated on aspects of sex and this is his thing. Rape and assault are his favourite, he loves it, he plans it and even you can sense the build up to it. It gives him such joy. He doesn't enjoy consensual sex nearly as much which is why he doesn't like you to instigate it.

You said he crossed a red line with the last rape. But in reality there is no red line, you know that and he knows that so the assaults will continue and you will continue to have nightmares and hallucinations.

You call that a happy life. If that makes you happy then you two a good match.

But is it worth sacrificing the children's wellbeing. I think that's probably what you should focus on going forward because you are making decisions for them as well as yourself and you should really start putting them first instead of putting what you want first all the time.

I hope you can eventually come to see how damaging this toxic household is for them and make that change sooner rather than later, for their sake.

One thing is certain. You can't say that you didn't know any more. You can't claim that you thought this was normal or that you weren't aware that his actions are abusive because you've been told by all the contributors to you threads, by womens aid and by your therapist.

So the decisions you make now are not in ignorance, they are with the full knowledge of what you are choosing.

I know it’s never ‘simple’ but to be brutally honest in the months of these threads I have seen minimal progress in even accepting the situation for what it is, let alone towards leaving. Pink has probably gained validation and knowledge that certain things aren’t normal but that’s as far as it goes. Everything is compartmentalised. Everything is saddening, confusing, panic-inducing, rather than entirely predictable.

I think the main barrier to Pink Poet accepting that is is an abusive relationship, that her children live in a house where domestic abuse is happening, and to opening up to her parents - is that fundamentally she loves and wants this man and is not willing to take a step - even in her own head at seeing the bigger picture - to jeopardise her marriage.

She’s only ever wanted help with the symptoms (perhaps just the catharsis of sharing anonymously with no real world consequences) but has been quite clear at times that she rules out entirely the idea of dealing with the cause.

I’m not trying to scare PinkPoet off, if that’s what she needs then that’s what she needs (and I think the lack of consequences means she’s never really scared away from here) but we might as well be honest. Whatever we are doing here it’s not supporting her out of a situation she has no intention of leaving.

I suspect this thread will end up being useful to other, silent, readers. I sadly don't think it's done anything for Poet...or her children, sadly.

One thing is certain. You can't say that you didn't know any more. You can't claim that you thought this was normal or that you weren't aware that his actions are abusive because you've been told by all the contributors to you threads, by womens aid and by your therapist.
So the decisions you make now are not in ignorance, they are with the full knowledge of what you are choosing.

This for me is the crux of it. There are two separate cases of abuse happening; one towards Poet and one towards their children.
Poet has repeatedly said she doesn’t want to leave her abuser despite realising over the last few months the extent of his abuse.

However, as a mother, the want and need to love and protect your children should be a stronger force than the fear of leaving. When there are children involved and you are responsible for them, as a mother, you need to find the strength from somewhere.

Otherwise, (and I’m afraid to say this is what’s happening here) you are complicit in the abuse of your own children. When you are aware that they are being abused (which poet now is) and you still choose to keep them in the environment, and not only that but take them BACK to that environment once you’ve removed them ( ie when poet went to stay at her parents and then went back) you become complicit.

How many cases do we hear of where the mothers are not doing the direct abuse but they are still charged and convicted of allowing the abuse to take place?

I think it's helpful to Poet still.

Maybe she's not ready to face up to the reality of her relationship or thinks the good outweighs the bad at the moment.

And given her situation with 4 little kids and never really having lived independently as an adult, making the jump has got to be terrifying.

I have faith however that no matter how hard she tries to cram the rose-tinted glasses back on, they won't stay on.

Hopefully her sense of self and what's right will grow despite the crushing weight of dh.

Unfortunately I think she will still be in the same situation in 10 years time, with a whole new set of problems that teenagers + an abusive father will bring. As someone upthread said therapy is ok as an outlet to vent but the steps to make a change don’t seem to be happening.

PP said quite clearly on a previous thread

that she did want want to leave her husband
and said along the lines of:

she would lose her beautiful home
he would have a new woman on his arm very quickly

PP now knows she is married to, and living with, a rapist
she may not have realised it was rape until her first thread but she has known it ever since.

Those are barriers she may have mentioned to the difficulty of leaving, but what really comes across to me throughout the threads is that her feelings towards him have not changed sadly. She loves him and can’t imagine living without him, she’s definitely said that too. Even the tipping point recently of the threat and then rape, and her brief escape to her parents, hasn’t changed that. It’s her biggest barrier.

Yes, she’s been aware for months now that he has by definition being repeatedly raping and sexually assaulting her for years, and these are some of the things she’s said just in this one thread:

“the main thing I struggle with is the incident from when I was pregnant . I feel like if that hadn’t happened I would be ok”

“He talks about us like we are a great passionate love story from and that’s why the sex is so intense /passionate and I get taken in by it . Because on some level I feel the same I guess? It’s very juvenile I know”

”I feel I have given the impression accidentally that I am abused every other day and never want to be intimate with him or spend time with him and it’s all against my will but that’s just not true
im sorry if I’ve given that impression
I have a good life and I love my family more than anything . All my family”

“My therapist seems to believe me that they have a great relationship with their dad and he loves them a lot”

When you lay it out - basically she’s where she was at the start of this: she wants everything to work out, she wants the trauma issue itself to be dealt with and go away without impacting her relationship, and it doesn’t sound like she’s providing an accurate picture to her therapist either.

Only Poet can decide whether she's still getting anything out of these threads, if indeed she ever was. But these kinds of threads inevitably die down at some point - either the person leaves the abuser or they don’t and there's little more to say either way. Maybe occasionally new posters will come along, try and post a few killer arguments, realise they've all been done to death already and then give up.

If she really is engaging with WA then they are best placed to help her, but she knows she needs to initiate that and quite clearly doesn't want to.

I also think it's probably deliberate that the only person she says she's told (who isn't a professional) is someone who lives abroad i.e. someone who may not be in a position to report this, nor to provide any practical help and who likely hasn't been told the full picture anyway. Poet's been very careful not to do anything irreversible.

I hope you're right! x

I think living this life must be hellish. I can remember the first couple of threads which I think were deleted where Poet really did realise she had been raped when pregnant.
This situation is all she knows as an adult and she is so entrenched in it that she doesn’t realise that if she tells her parents, her GP, her boss she could live a very different life.
If she is scared of what he’d to the kids on his own with them, her only option is to tell the police everything and I don’t think she will ever do that.
Her body knows it’s wrong and her mind knows - hence the nightmares and migraines.
I think creating these ‘memories’ keeps her going.
She has been told over and over again by posters who grew up around abuse of the effects on her children. She says if he hit her, or one of them, she would leave. But he did hit one - albeit with an apple, but it was still aggression - and it was glossed over.
It is so very, very sad that a lovely young woman is living this way.
There is a huge amount of shame involved, and the secrecy that covers the shame.
He has admitted to raping her and then raped her again.
At some point you have to choose yourself, but I don’t think Poet thinks she can cope with life without him.
It is a worry for her children - they soak everything in. At some point the scales will fall, and as they get older the damage will have been done.
I think as long as these memories are being created this young woman and her kids get little pockets of normalcy which they just crave because being around an angry man is terrifying for a child.
Your dad should have the most protective arms.
Poet’s dad has, and this man has raped his daughter in the family home. It remains the most disturbing thing I’ve ever seen on here.
I hope she comes back but if she doesn’t I’m sure her story will remain with so many.