MARCH 2026 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

have now set up a new thread as the previous one is now full.
This long runnning thread has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.
The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!
One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;
'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'
Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.
Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.
You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
I started with this book and found it really useful.
Here are some excerpts:
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."
Helpful Websites
Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat for details.
Some books:
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."
6

I am home now. I was just looking back at my behaviours. Does being we people and not having your needs met, even as adults just make you behave differently. The past week I was not myself.

Does she dislike me because I expose her? I don’t agree with her opinion all the time and voice my own? She then can’t stop herself from reacting in a way she doesn’t want others to see? A couple of time the FIL did tell her not to interfere. She can not stand me holding firm to something I believed. She also has zero empathy, you can expose this because she won’t acknowledge my illness, no care whatsoever. I am a loose canon because I’ve come into the family after having a life and been and seen many things.

She sees you as a threat as well as someone to control.

What did your h make of the holiday (from hell?)

He is oblivious, she is very nice to him. She talked a lot about his family hols and all the memories from when he was young. She was also good to the kids (well she was OTT but she wasn’t horrible). She is lovely to many people. There is a select few women in the family she does this to like me.

@ididntwanttopostthis I just wanted to say that my parents are pretty much exactly the same in every single way (eg my mum refused to talk about periods and when I eventually asked her about them as a teenager she went mad). The only difference is that my dad is warm and loving on the surface but it instantly stops if you expose the family BS in any way or even hint at doing so. I just wanted to share as I literally have the same parents. The pain is insane from it. Sending hugs

Do we have an in built sense for someone who is low in empathy and emotionally unsafe? I wonder because I was hurt very badly in my previous relationship is this is something I’ve developed or is it a safety mechanism we have?

I have a real physical reaction to people who have low empathy, I feel unsafe around them and I’m not sure this is normal? I don’t need this relationship with my MIL but I feel funny being around her.

Hello long time lurker never posted. I wanted to ask, has anyone received a letter off their narc mother before? I have no idea what to reply. I can give some more context but would really like to talk to others that have been through similar. Thank you

@Shattereddreamsparkway The letter is bait. Do not take the bait. The only way to deal with it is to put it in the bin, preferable unopened.

I hope you can forget about it and crack on with your day.

Don’t read! I know in my own experience my mind and body are not within full control and the words will impact me. I think it’s probably almost impossible to not have an emotional response. Or get someone else who isn’t emotionally invested to read and they can search for important information if there are still people within the system you’d like to know about. Tell them the specifics of what you’d like to hear.

Shred that letter from your narcissistic mother and do not read it. No good to you will come from reading it and at best it’s likely to be a word salad full of hate towards you. It’s certainly not going to be a nicely worded letter.

She being over the top Mustigo is not she being good to your kids. She’s likely playing one off against the other or has adopted the golden child/ scapegoat dynamic against them.

She is an odd one really. She doesn’t seem to scapegoat kids. Even both her sons are golden really. They both flawed (we all are really) but really noticeable with my partners anxiety with possessions. The other bro Im pretty sure is unraveling, something is happening as it’s gone eerily quiet. These boys can do no wrong when they are clearly having problems. I’m very lucky my partner has empathy, he is very kind, he is eager to please really, he is likeable and is doing well. He isn’t jealous, isn’t competitive.

She does however scapegoat women she has come across who see through her. She is what I’ve come to think a “moral” narcissist (if that is such a thing. She won’t take sides in an argument amongst her people, she won’t voice an opinion, all her comments are extremely moral. She absolutely loves strangers and meeting people, omg if you could see how she lights up. But with me and others she looks past me, there is no lighting up and animated expressions, she makes snide comments and put downs. She loves herself, her opinions, she is a moral highness. But she isn’t actually very nice when in conversation with her, especially when you go against her. I don’t think she especially likes me because I don’t care if I’ve done wrong things, I own the things I’ve done and learned. She sees me as flawed (which I am and that’s normal so it’s weird this is bad thing). I’m defo not an extension.

Can you get a moral narcs?

I think emotionally healthy people simply call them out because it exposes their behaviour. I feel sad for my husband really. Although I will say in these years we’ve been together his hoarding has considerably reduced. He isn’t adding to what he had culminated, he has reduced. Secure attachment heals I guess. He can’t see his parents behaviour tho. But I will give it to his mum, she is incredibly intelligent and she is a very well camouflaged convert narc. The only telling sign is that I tried to secure a healthy attachment and it’s exposed what she can’t do.

The positive is that I love my kids flaws and all, I accept myself fully so hopefully it ends with my kids. God I hope so.

Thank you for taking the time to respond I really appreciate it 🩷 she has since text me as if nothing has happened.
She has said that my 5 year old ignores her and can feel the hostility and that is why she doesn’t speak to her

@Shattereddreamsparkway we received a letter from my DH’s mother, full of lame excuses, gaslighting and lies. And subtle undermining bullshit. It was infuriating at the time and we did not respond, but it also serves as concrete proof of what a POS she is, so it depends how vulnerable you currently are I suppose? You could hold on to it until you decide?

@MustIgo I think she likes strangers because she can show them her best persona and they won’t have time to see it isn’t real. My DH’s NPD brother will do his Mr NiceGuy routine with strangers, offering to do them grand favours while calling my DH a c* for not being able to perform the favour for him on his behalf. Once, Mr NiceGuy had volunteered DH to help someone (which my DH agreed to) and a particular part BiL had ordered to do this favour had not turned up. Verbal abuse is putting it lightly. And it was his own fault.

He literally uses the word righteous to describe himself, and although his Mr NiceGuy persona doesn’t include religion, he has delusions of grandeur about his moral compass and his highness as a person (the guy who verbally abuses his brother because his brother literally couldn’t fix something without the part that he himself had ordered). He drops the Mr NiceGuy persona with people who have already seen what a horrible person he is, except in arguments when he pretends all the horrible things he has done have somehow been niceness.

My MIL is very clever, she does not overtly show you who she is. She has the breaks of fuck knows but she can hold her tongue and her environment is iron cast brilliant. If she wasn’t a narcissist you would admire her. Arguing is beneath her! You are literally just left feeling below her. Which is what I’ve realised I feel when around her. I am someone who’s seeks equality, I do not like to feel less then, I don’t think anyone is less then me and visa versa.

@MustIgo my MiL is clever and hides her NPD fairly well, but it still requires a lot of work and distance - if that makes sense. Once people meet her children for example, they start to question everything she has told them about why they don’t speak much (or at all) and what she’s really like as a parent. She also wouldn’t argue, but she lays her views down and goes as far as to tell strangers what they should do with their lives etc. She also, inevitably, tells people conflicting things (less obviously than BiL) but this leads to doubt over time from others. Her partner has this weird ability to do mental gymnastics in order to still believe she’s a good person (after everything he’s seen!) and also has very low self esteem - she’s found the unicorn in him somehow.

My FIL is a big head with little compassion. Racist, sexist….all the ist’s you can think of. They are both narc or one narc and the FIL just arrogant. FIL does not search for supply tho, he isn’t performing he’s just arrogant. I think MIL has infested him a little unfortunately because he came from a great family. I think that’s what she loves, he has a close big family so loads of supply.

What I find weird is without the narc personality they actually have positive aspects to them. They pass as normal people, go on holidays, grow this and that and do regular things that you can attach to and share. It’s just the narc bit. I thought narcs were just awful evil people but they do (in my case) have quite normal parts to them.

100% agree with this. I have shared interests, political views and life goals with my MiL. She’s funny, clever, is good at entertaining. She just doesn’t care about people, at all. Not even her kids, or her siblings or her mum when she was alive. Not a shred of love or care. If it wasn’t for that missing piece, she wouldn’t do all the things she does that are horrible, and I would genuinely like her.

Have we got the same one! 😂 At a distance she is likable. Over the phone, with messages, some comments on photos. But the closer you get the more unlikable. It’s very strange!

@Eeriefairy Your DH's brother sounds very similar to mine. With anyone he is attempting to impress he can come across as very charming and kind. He considers himself morally superior and considers that this excuses behaviour that most people would say was shitty. If you don't see that, or can be persuaded he is right, he can seem like a really nice person. He likes to be seen to go out of his way to help people and 'do what's right'-frequently trying to 'fix'/'save' people, but usually he expects someone else to actually do the hard work and like your BIL he gets very nasty if they won't go along with it. He seems to like to feel that people are indebted to him but also brags that he 'shows up' other people who don't offer as much as he does, or seem as 'good' as he is. As a (somewhat bizarre) example, he decided that it was important that a distant relative with mental health problems should come to DF's funeral. Not because they had ever been close, but because he said people with mental health problems are too often ignored or pushed out and this would be a chance to connect with him and help him. At the time I was organising the funeral and caring for DM but he wanted me and DH to arrange to collect the relative (a few hours drive away), put him up in DM's house for a few days and take him home afterwards. When I suggested that a funeral wasn't the right time for this and maybe he could arrange to meet the relative at another time brother became extremely aggressive. He tends to always have a small number of friends that he clearly feels he is better than, and helping. They often don't last long and he usually has a story about them doing something awful or finding out they are bad people- I suspect that if they don't show the reaction he wants or don't want his 'help' he becomes unpleasant. He has a similar pattern with girlfriends. He always makes a point of telling people things that he feels makes them somehow 'lesser' and in need of his help (eg. having been a teenage mum, having a neglectful childhood etc- not things there would have been any reason for people to know really). He always feels he is 'saving' them (despite actually being a bit of a useless manchild) then gets annoyed when they don't 'appreciate' him enough.
@KlahanieLove My older brother was an alcoholic. For many years the entire extended family made excuses for him and accepted all his excuses. He was also a totally nasty person who enjoyed hurting people. This was covered up by the direct family and where it couldn't be denied anything he did was blamed on his victims. When his alcoholism reached a stage where they could no longer pretend he 'just liked a drink' they all said it was an illness like any other and anything he did was not his fault, it was the illness. I went totally NC with him when my first child was born, to protect myself and my children. For about a year my parents flip flopped between not speaking to me and calling me constantly to tell me how badly I was behaving. For a few months the flying monkeys from the extended family tried to persuade me to 'be nice' and give him a chance etc. Although my parents never agreed with my decision, over time they accepted it and stopped trying to force me to change my mind. Everyone told me I would regret not being friends if anything were to happen to alcohlic brother. Alcoholic brother eventually died as a result of his drinking but they still claim it was a random illness that could have happened to anyone. He is still talked about as though he was a wonderful person who happened to make a mistake and drink too much sometimes. A few extended family members blame me for upsetting him/not doing more to help. I do not regret going NC with him and know that he would have found ways to drag me and my family in to his insanity if I hadn't. My only regrets are that I didn't go NC earlier and that I put up with lies and mistreatment from younger brother and parents but did not go NC with them at the same time. I am now very low contact with younger brother and Mum is elderly and vulnerable so I am being dragged in to family matters again.

@formalwellies, yes he sounds exactly the same! He’s always “saving” people or “helping” but always likes to tell people whatever he thinks makes them (usually a girlfriend) less than him. He actually told us once that he had told one of his girlfriends that my DH and I thought she was a POS. Neither of us had ever said anything like that about this girl, we both liked her and worried about her association with BiL if anything. I managed to tell her that we had never said such things but I couldn’t tell if she believed me. We didn’t have much contact with girlfriends after that. I am sure he tells them all manner of lies about us and vice versa. I don’t believe a single thing he says. I wouldn’t believe him if he told me it was raining outside unless I could go and see for myself.

We actually had a big falling out years ago when I bumped into a girlfriend of his who was enthusing about seeing us again (we had had them round for dinner before) and I then pulled him up on the fact he always said she didn’t like us and didn’t want to come round. He was clearly just keeping us apart so we couldn’t be honest with each other. He probably told her we thought she was a POS too but had learned by that point not to tell us.

FWIW, I do believe alcoholism is an illness. Like suicidal ideation or anxiety. But I don’t believe the treatment includes making excuses for any of their behaviour - especially the harm they do to others, and I don’t think AA would hold with them making excuses either.

OMG. The gift that keeps on giving. Mr Monkey’s family. His toxic mother after giving him years of abuse died two years ago, his brother (her defacto husband) died aged 62 in January after a shit life looking after The Hag. Jealousy of his friends, not allowed to have a relationship, made to live in the next street to The Hag so she could control him.

Mr Monkey is the executor and sole beneficiary to Slave Son’s estate and house (as SS had no life he built up hefty savings)

The will brought Twat Brother out of wherever the twat had been hiding for over 10 years as he wasn’t in contact with any of his family, including his kids who he abandoned. Twat after years of lots of money (Porsche etc) is now skint. So, that and his incredible amount of narcissism and entitlement elicited inquiries about £.

There is no money as Slave Son changed his will to disinherit him. There was £500 for him as SS forgot one pot of pension that was left to him. TB was outraged and claimed he was dependent. No, he wasn’t. We have not heard from him since and I doubt we will ever again. Thank fuck.

So, the house, which can only be described as a slum, as The Hag wouldn’t let SS decorate it or make it suitable for her disabled son, is now sold. The backyard was full of cat shit as some idiot down the alley was feeding a cat. Buyers insisted that we sort that out. Mr Monkey goes down to the house this AM to sort it. He’s had to take two weeks unpaid leave to sort the final stretch of death admin out.

Mr Monkey went to the shed and as well as a ton of cat shit there is a nursing cat momma and four kittens. I’d love to take them in 😂 but impossible. So, it’s ringing round today to find a shelter to take them in.

It’s like The Hag is haunting us because the stupid bitch used to feed strays who would come into Slave Son’s house and crap everywhere. Why she didn’t get them neutered or rehomed, fuck only knows. Oh yes it was part of her narcissistic bollocks having the cats love her. cos MM is kind and responsible he bought a litter tray which the kittens are using. ❤️ Probably have them litter trained by tomorrow morning. I swear to god the Hag is haunting us and after this hopefully that’s it.

The only thing she could connect to was a mangy feral cat! 😂 Sadly the gift that keeps on giving is the mental afflictions that live within those who’ve had the pleasure of being raised by them or the pleasure of just knowing them. They probably dissipate over generations….( I hope it’s not just merely genetic and they pop in in our childrens
children). God I can only imagine my MIL being reincarnated in my grandchildren.