MARCH 2026 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

have now set up a new thread as the previous one is now full.
This long runnning thread has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.
The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!
One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;
'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'
Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.
Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.
You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
I started with this book and found it really useful.
Here are some excerpts:
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."
Helpful Websites
Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat for details.
Some books:
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."
6

I just realised they actually engineer the reality. When you stop showing up because their behaviour makes you not want to you have actually been engineered into the part of family whose selfish and bad just like they say. Whatever you do you always loose in this world of theirs. They want to manipulate you into the looser.

@Sicario I think I’ve quoted the right person. I just thought I’d share with you what is happening in my family that shares a similar theme to yours. An elderly and vulnerable person who’s gone beyond having a clue what’s happening is now in a care home. A narc sibling has had hold of this person for a long time. They have stonewalled information and pushed everyone aside and gained all control of money, decisions etc etc. If you could see how farcical this has become it may make you feel a bit better. This said narc turns up in the care home, dolled up lipstick and when they walk in they run the place. They performing all over the place, if you could see you’d probably be laughing as I am. They know all the names, it’s like they’ve walked into a job. I’ve long since let go of anything to do with them but I have visit and walk away. One day the vulnerable person will die and the supply will fizzle out. I have my own family like you and this will never fizzle out. You are best off not bothering. The elderly person has probably like mine mentally long gone and so has the money. Plant a tree and water this to keep any positive memories alive. Honestly on the other side that you can’t see is an absolute joke!

It was @Spendysis that was for. Sorry @Sicario.

@MustIgoi thought we were distantly related for a minute you described my family and situation so well it was only when you mentioned lippy and dolled up that i knew it wasn’t my dsis you were talking about. She doesn’t get dolled up for her daily visits to the care home tend to see her there at mealtimes probably hoping to get a free feed. I imagine she walks in like she runs the place as well as she used to be a care home manager and area manager

Whatever the reason they go it’s not for the vulnerable person. You are better off out of it for your own sanity, it’s nasty, volatile and absolutely pathetic. The narc will not let this source go without a tragic fight, one that if you keep hold of the rope all will be pulled down. They have nothing in life, nothing to loose so will fight to the death. What you speculate and wonder from the background is awful, it’s really awful. You are better off not being involved.

@MustIgo I am staying out of it like you said for my own mental wellbeing I am nc with dsis and don’t want anything to do with her. I haven’t been to see dm in the care home because I know there has been cognitive decline so I don’t know if she would recognise me

unfortunately we all live close so we see dsis car at the care home when we drive past

She would have no doubt been long since manipulated anyway. I do feel sometimes we blame the person for being swayed but I think it just shows more how well the narc can manipulate and brainwash. They are in control of all the incoming information for the target. But they tend to love a vulnerable person, more buttons to press. In my H’s family you can see how the insecure partners with a bit of trauma can be persuaded and manipulated with the right input. I hope you can stop wondering what’s happening and be reassured that what’s happening is ridiculous. Even if you spot them in places you know it’s going to be all nonsense and not missing out on anything really but an illusion of decency which has long since gone. The poor vulnerable person is just a fly in a spiders web, sad for them but you don’t want to get caught yourself.

@MustIgo by the way, I was thinking about what you were saying about losing your temper. Giving them a reason to call you unreasonable etc. I know you’re already over it and know you weren’t in the wrong, but it reminded me, in the last argument I had with my dad, he brought up the fact that I stay “too calm” in arguments as some kind of evidence of me not caring or being emotionally detached. So even if you hadn’t lost your temper, you could still be criticised.

A friend of mine sent me a fantastic quote. You have two choices when someone upsets you, hold it in and eventually get sick from autoimmune conditions or be a bitch and let loose and save yourself from getting sick….apparently it’s more healthy choosing bitch! 😂

I think part of my problem moving on is that we all live so close I’ve not yet been in the situation where I have come face to face with dsis. We have driven behind her or in cars come face to face waiting to pass a parked car and she turns away

we regularly drive passed the care home dm house and dsis house just going about daily life. Dsis doesn’t really have any reason to go down our road and in fairness we haven’t seen her

i know she hasn’t moved out her house yet because dh had to drive passed and her new car was down her drive obviously I have no idea why not it went on the market in feb sold straight away and I presume it was her stalling as she had to be out end of June as that’s when her mortgage needed paying

I don’t care non of my business yet it somehow has brought the whole situation back in my mind

moving out the area is a future plan but not feasible at the moment dd who lives locally with her boyfriend needs a lot of support as she struggles and ds still lives at home and needs to be local for his work

@Spendysis That must be really difficult. I'm very pleased that I have some distance between me and GB2. You must feel upset that you are having to consider moving away from the area where you have also built your own life.

Someone upthread mentioned about dysfunctional families 'engineering reality'. I feel that this exactly explains what mine have done. The public facade that was presented by my family, and that I was trained to preserve, has been entirely believed by extended family/friends/neighbours etc. For lots of reasons, I have never publicly completely challenged this but have quietly distanced myself, although my parents talked to other people about me as though we were very close and saw eachother frequently. Now that Mum has care needs, the fact that I am not willing to put my own life/family last to care for mum and run around after GB2 does not fit with the 'reality' they have engineered and sold to everyone around us. Since their version of reality has been unchallenged for decades I can see that it really does look like I am 'suddenly' stepping away just when my help is needed. Meanwhile it looks like GB2 has consistently been around for my parents and is now having to deal with everything because I selfishly refuse to share the burden. Even now, they are selling a false narrative by minimising everything that I do (which, despite being far less than they want from me is still a huge amount) and pretending that GB2 is the perfect son. They seem to be so entrenched in protecting this story that they simply won't consider the longer term realities of the situation. I am very pleased to be able to walk away and come home to a town where I don't have to see and hear them telling this fairy story and where my own friends and neighbours don't hear it.

We fall into two categories, those who validate the narcs reality and those who don’t. They are victims to those who don’t. They seem to be centre to both these roles. They either special or they are victim, either role is self serving. It is clever how they are never the perpetrator or the problem. I really cant understand how partners of these people can’t see this? How are they managing to stay in relationships? I’ve got one who is causing issues but they’ve been married forever.

@formalwellies it’s interesting they’ve always presented you as being closer than you are but now are minimising your input. You’d think they’d want to maintain the “we’re a perfect family, son and daughter doing everything they can for me because we’re so close” narrative. I wonder if they always preserved that narrative as there would have been nothing to gain by making you look bad? But now, they might feel they can manipulate you into doing more?

@MustIgo I think they maintain their relationships the same way all abusive relationships work - their partner is a victim and is kept in line with various methods of control. They have to have the right kind of partner to maintain it long term, but there are definitely people out there who will put up with abuse for their whole lives either knowingly or unknowingly.

There seems to be something about humans where they love a situation where they on a side. Narcs absolutely love this situation because it becomes an us and them. I guess it’s divide and conquer. A partner or child becomes allies and a fellow team player. It is ridiculous how people pick sides with one side of a story, fight fights they have nothing to do with. People can be quite stupid.

@Eeriefairy Privately Mum and GB2 have often put the blame on me when have refused to sacrifice myself to prevent GB1 and GB2 from facing the consequences of their actions. They've usually publicly either pretended everything was fine or explained our 'disagreements' as me having a short term bout of unreasonableness under the influence of DH/friends etc. Of course, there was always a very sanitised version of what we were disagreeing about.
I think the big difference now is that GB2 thinks that if everyone including Mum believes that he is a wonderful son and I am a nasty cow he will get Mum's house etc when she passes. Mum's still trying to keep up the lovely family facade publicly but GB2 has a huge hold over her and has her persuaded that anything I agree to do for her is quick/simple and he does 'everything'. Given her dementia I think Mum's trying to deal with things the same way that she always has done but doesn't really see things clearly.

@formalwellies your mum should have done the work when you were young to raise decent sons. What a mess rug sweepers make. I can see how much mess a passive parent makes cleaning up after the narc. It’s not just a narc problem but a relationship problem, takes two!

@formalwelliesi am not wanting to move because of dsis I’ve been nc for 3 years and I am not sure if triggered is the right word but when we see her car at the care home see dm house having a new bathroom Who is paying for that ? Seeing dsis hasn’t yet moved it ends up in a conversation about her me thinking about what is going on that maybe my fault as I overthink things

if we didn’t live so close I would be unaware of any of this I just want to move on I accept what she has done I accept we will no longer have a relationship which is now my choice as well. As awful as it sounds I don’t think I will totally move on and be at peace until dm passes away will read and probate done and dusted I am half expecting to bump into someone around the village that says I am sorry to hear about your dm passing and me not even know

@Spendysis it sounds hard, an awful lot of mental work for you. It’s not your fault and it’s just unfair. There is a very good reason for the saying out of sight out of mind.

I have been reading that narcissistic people are basically dysregulated adults. Hear me out on this because I don’t want to be rude about those who suffer. There has been ADHD mentioned by my friend as to whether undiagnosed ADHD could explain some of the behaviours. I know this is a born neurotype but I’m wondering if this neurotype plus trauma or simply receiving no supper could become narcissistic. Also ADHD and Rejection sensitivity could be responsible. I looked at levelling behaviour due to adhd also. I know full blown narcissism is not present at birth but could some of the people be dealing with this instead of narcissism. My friend is looking at whether she has ADHD. She knows she blows apart all her relationships but can’t stop it. She is drawn to chaos, she knows this but finds calm boring.

Flying Monkey is working overtime since I messaged to say I was going on holiday.

16 phonecalls yesterday.
7 phonecalls so far today.

New record.

The insanity from GB2 continues. At this stage I can't really work out whether it's just that he is in denial about Mum's dementia (fully diagnosed and very obvious) or a ploy to manipulate the situation so that I give in and take over looking after mum (which really won't be happening).
Mum is currently away on a caravan holiday with him, his partner and small child and a couple of their friends. In the run up to the holiday they engineered lots of things that made Mum say she didn't think she could go, clearly aimed at making me say I would look after her (after they were told when the booked that it is a time when I simply can't do that, and refusing my suggestion that we try some residential respite care). This resulted in lots of running around by me to try to sort things out for her. One of the issues Mum was not keen on was their plan to spend time with friends that she doesn't really know (2 x middle aged men). GB2 has been 'suggesting' ever since his child was born that my family should go away with his so that 'we can all share the childcare' (my DC are young adults so even if we got on this would not be a reciprocal thing, just us spending money and annual leave to go somewhere we don't want to go to look after his child). GB2 has told mum that they have to go with these friends so that there is someone to help look after their child to give them a bit of a break, since NONE OF HIS FAMILY will help (capitals here very much = shouting). I have now found out that on several evenings GB2 and his partner have both gone to their friends' caravan once their child is in bed, leaving mum alone at night with a small child. She says it's OK because they are not far away and she can call them- but a) they complain that their child often wakes in the night b) Mum has dementia and poor vision so often struggles to work her phone c) Mum gets very anxious if she is alone at night to the extent that she refuses to go to bed if she is in on her own after dark and d) she is in an unfamiliar place and given her dementia could do odd and unexpected things eg, going out, opening the door to strangers, attempting to cook etc.
I'm going away with my family soon so fully expect there to be a series of invented crises between now and then in a bid to make things as hard as possible for me, and (in their minds) maybe make me cancel (this won't happen). I wasn't planning to tell them when I was going away but unfortunately GB2 was present at a discussion with the dementia nurse about availability for appointments. I've already been told that I am very selfish for going out of the country when Mum might need me and that it's unfair that I will be having a lovely relaxing adults holiday when I claim to be too busy to help GB2 with childcare. I have tried to point out that this is how parenting works- when mine were small I had to take annual leave or pay for childcare but apparently it is absolutely not the same.

I should also add I have pulled back from this friend. There is something about her trying to position herself in the centre of my life and being indispensable I find weird. I have this feeling this is how a narc relationship works. If they are indispensable then you can’t leave. I always thought that partners etc were abused into the position but a part of me is starting to think that they get something out of the relationship themselves. There is a need within the enabler that’s being fulfilled, perhaps they like the money or bask in the glory. Like those little fish feeding off a big fish.

God he sounds so irritating you must have the patience of a saint not to tell him where to shove it. And leaving her to babysit his child shows a lack of care for both of them. I wouldn’t respond to any messages while you’re away. What a nightmare.

@Ladybyrd Oh, I have told him exactly where to shove it many times over the years but as I get older I have realised that it just plays in to his narrative that I'm argumentative/attention seeking/dramatic whilst he stays around Mum to look after her and just wants us all to help eachother out like families should. Of course, he will never mention what he did/said to cause my reaction, or that 'staying around to look after mum' has always meant living rent free and lazing around. He's a master at telling half a story to get sympathy. For example, his child was not finding it easy to play with other children at school and suggested finding opportunities for him to socialise with other children outside school like a club or play dates with the children of friends and family. GB2s solution was that I take my DC over at the weekends or take his child on days out with us, and he was very annoyed when I refused and suggested joining a children's activity club. I have heard from other sources that he has complained that his nasty sister is refusing to take her children to play with his child, or to involve his child in activities that they do and so is denying him that chance for development. Which I suppose is technically true but my 'children' are actually adults since I am older than GB2 and he was in his late 40s when his only child was born.

Well that was fun. Mum just called me asking if I would be going with her to an appointment coming up for something we've been organising (I have been dealing with all her many medical appointments as GB2 says he's too busy and I know that left to him mum's dementia would never have been assessed). He's clearly decided that this is something that will make him look good and/or put him in control (it relates to finding out about care options etc, which he is adamant are not needed) as it seems he has contacted them and told them he's going with her and to send him all the details so of course I had no idea about it. This seems to have thrown Mum, as she's used to me handling her diary and admin etc (mainly because GB2 refuses) as well as attending medical appointments with her. She's asked him to speak to me about it, as she gets very confused and struggles with speaking. Of course he has refused to take the phone this but instead has ranted at me from across the room about how he is her carer, I don't do anything, I'm not wanted anywhere near, why am I trying to get involved etc etc.
I've been trying to apply logic to how he behaves (is he trying to push me out? but them why does he repeatedly refuse to do things knowing that Mum will ask me?) but I think I'm realising there is no real logic. He wants me out of the picture so that people think what a wonderful person he is and there's no one in the way of him getting Mum's house etc (plus I'm convinced before long and excuse to stop working again and live of mum).. But at the same time wants me to quietly do all the boring, time consuming stuff than no one sees.
I don't think he realises that I won't continue like this- I get closer and closer every time to letting them just get on with it. I do feel sorry for Mum but as lots of people have pointed out on this thread, she has created the monster (or at least never challenged it).