The Archers: Tally-Ho for the Hunt Ball! Will Justin return from Scotland with the Gay Gordons? Will Adam feel a right Charlie? Discussion #81

[DadDadDad]

Thanks, R4, for the title (again!).

I'm your temporary host while PseudoBadger is on her sabbatical / prison term / secret mission.

Old hands and complete newbies all welcome.

Spoilers (eg Radio Times descriptions of future programmes) not welcome.

When will Matt reappear? Before / during / after the wedding?

The floor is yours...

But Ecuador is a handy and different bolt hole for when Lilian doesn’t go through with the wedding. Hopefully the house sale isn’t finalised so she can return after a while.
Pip and Toby just need some good luck and the to go on a round the world trip, I heard of one couple who have been on one for 10+ years, including having 3 children.
Anishas parents need to be installed in a local sheltered housing/care home.
There will have to be fall out with jilted Justin, I’m not sure what yet.

Toby is the latest Ambridge personality transplant. He's suddenly open , honest, hard working and supportive. Grrrr!

Words can have more than one meaning. Who knew?

Patronising? Much? I can choose to interpret her meaning differently. I'd be very surprised if Lily's conversation was supposed to be a subtle attempt to present her as racist, that's all.

subtle attempt to present her as racist

D'you remember Alice telling Amy - when they were best friends - that black people don't ride horses? I don't think the SW was trying to portray Alice as racist, just stupidly ignorant. Lily's remark was considerably worse than that; specific rather than general.

Is Lily Racist? Probably no more in an unthinking way than most white people (and I include myself). She could accidentally say something that is a lot worse than she knew - six months ago I could have said “urban” incorrectly.
And there are lots of jokes of people using phrases such as “Netflix and chill” incorrectly.
Do some people find “urban” used that way offensive? Yes, deeply.
Do I think the script writers knew this? Yes, actually I am pretty sure they used it knowingly, but also knew some people wouldn’t get it but some would. And actually both Noli and Freddie are likely to be people who get it. I wonder if Freddie had a quite word with Lily later?

Just wondering why people are so invested in Lily not being racist.......

By 'people' I'm assuming you mean me Bertrand? Well why not? Why assume the absolute worst about everyone? Why look for a hidden meaning in absolutely everything? Relentlessly picking apart every sentence. It's bloody exhausting. If it turns out that she is, then well done you.

Woah people , Bert means me too no doubt. I'm not down with the kids so had no idea that 'urban' meant other than a geographical term for a built up area.

Maybe Lily is on that wavelength , maybe she isn't , I don't reckon she's racist either I LIKE her anyway , a typical county set type .

I think, despite the different ways 'urban' can be used, and despite the improbability of her using it in that way, that is what the SWs meant it to mean.

If this is, as I suspect, meant to be an isolated instance of Lily "not being very PC", then I think that's a real shame, because they'd be suggesting that posh kids do have lurking racial prejudices but it's not a massive problem - bit like how it didn't make Freddie's character an unlikeable one long-term when he was talking about plebs and lice etc at the state 6th form college.

I doubt they are going to go too far with a 'Lily is racist' storyline. If it's just a word she chose to fling out to be hurtful, then that's not really ok: a person who seizes on a racist epithet in the heat of the moment when they're annoyed with a black person is.... obviously... a racist!

The snobbery thing is a bit complicated, too - Nolithandu is from as wealthy a background as, and socially/breeding-wise on a par with, Lily: the Pargetters are no posher than the Aldridges.

Anyway, thinking about the way the SWs do characterization and the script itself is all part of the fun, for me.

Wow-sorry, Vango. Not sure what I've done to upset you, but whatever it is, I apologise.

But, at the risk of dancing on other people's toes the idea that Lily is motivated by snobbery not racism is a bit odd too. Noli is Lily's social equal- she's Brian and Jennifer's granddaughter which definitely places her on the same level in Ambridge and her father's family are professionals. Why should Lily feel snobby about her?

I think the TA scriptwriters may be over-estimating their audience's ability to understand the nuances of urban.

I agree, EBearhug. I've lived in Inner London in a very racially mixed area for most of my life and had no idea about this modern meaning of the word. My son may well know, but he's in his 20s and it's not the kind of thing he mentions in the odd moments we see him before he rushes off to work.

Given that last week's SW was Keri Davies, who prides himself on being down with the kidz (he's a DJ as well, or was) I'd be very surprised indeed if it hadn't been meant the way Gruach and Bert heard it, but I didn't hear it that way (through ignorance), and I'd be extremely surprised if the majority of the TA audience (mostly over 50, white, middle-class, if they are typical R4 listeners, if I recall the BBC's research on this correctly) had immediately grasped the nuance.

I only grasped the nuance because my ds, to me secret amusement, is a serious hip hop fan (play that funky music, white boy) and he is, sadly, not a grunting teenager who tells me nothing.

And I loathe a Lily with a passion worthy of a better cause, so was delighted to have yet another reason.

I agree I don't think the majority of the audience will have got the nuance. I think there is a possibility that we obsess about TA in a way that most listeners dont

Thread #81 (post 78,000 more or less)

I think there is a possibility that we obsess about TA in a way that most listeners dont

D'you think?

" I think there is a possibility that we obsess about TA in a way that most listeners dont smile"

Surely not.......

Isn't the approach the same as real life (as I think Vango implied): reserve judgement following one (ambiguous) remark and wait to see if Lily makes another comment that reveals her racism. Surely, if the SW want to clearly portray racism at play, they will drop a few more clues?

Thread 81? And we're still waiting for an official visit from the scriptwriters ...

How do you know that the SWs aren't already among us? Maybe they come on here to test outlandish ideas such as Lily being racist.

Maybe the reason MysticBore's predictions are so good is because she is actually on the inside of the production?

Just realised, MysticBore is not actually Bore's username, it's just I've got so used to her trademark!

I doubt they're going to make a big deal of it - I'd be surprised, anyway, as I said above.

Yeah, but no, but ... official visit?

It would take a brave sw to own up as one on here at times.

That's heartfelt Vango

Sometimes I get the feeling that Matt has never set foot in Costa Rica.

D^3 I can assure you I most definitely do not have any insider knowledge.