The Archers: Tally-Ho for the Hunt Ball! Will Justin return from Scotland with the Gay Gordons? Will Adam feel a right Charlie? Discussion #81

[DadDadDad]

Thanks, R4, for the title (again!).

I'm your temporary host while PseudoBadger is on her sabbatical / prison term / secret mission.

Old hands and complete newbies all welcome.

Spoilers (eg Radio Times descriptions of future programmes) not welcome.

When will Matt reappear? Before / during / after the wedding?

The floor is yours...

I didn't necessarily see 'urban' as a racist slur.

More having a go at her for not dressing the way country folk do ... a bit overdone and tarty perhaps.

It would be really weird to make Lily racist. With the exception of a young Roy, the racists in TA tend to be silent characters as in the fruit pickers incident. I honestly wonder if the SW have used the word urban without realising how it would sound. I think lily was racist but I wondered if it was meant to be. I guess we will find out.

I understood 'urban' as used by Lily to be a direction to us to understand an undercurrent of racism. It's still relatively recent that Idris Elba was considered 'too urban' to be Bond, which led to a lot of discussion about the racism of such an assumption (I know it went on to be countered, but the word urban was quoted in lots of inverted commas a lot at the time).

Obviously urban doesn't mean black, but my understanding was that the SWs meant for Lily to be meaning it (albeit perhaps unconsciously) in that way.

Any 17 year old of Lily's ilk and stamp would say 'townie' not 'urban' anyway.

Although no 17 year old talks like Lily whatever she's saying, to be honest, so that might just be all part of them not knowing how posh teens (or any teens) really talk.

Been googling, I take back my previous comment:

fashionbombdaily.com/fashion-discussion-what-is-urban-fashion/

Derived originally from hip hop.

Oh, I think it was definitely intended to show racism. One of the reasons Noli splatted back so hard.

I was pretty sure it was- then I listened to the Dum dee Dum podcast and they confirmed it.

It is quite rare for soaps to make a likeable character racist, I am vaguely impressed if they meant to do it.

rest of thread catches up sloooooooowly

I don't think Lily is racist. (Because she's too smart.) But she was taken by surprise, floundered, and grabbed the nearest implement, having nothing else to jibe her second cousin once removed with. (Which is why I thought it was well observed.)

I'm trusting that, once they've all shaken their feathers down, they'll be the closest of friends for generations to come. (And sisters in law!)

(What's wrong with me? I'm not usually this forgiving ...)

Aargh! Scratch 'surprised'. That was after. But she was floundering and trying to maintain top dog status when Noli described her new dress.

"It is quite rare for soaps to make a likeable character racist, I am vaguely impressed if they meant to do it."

Lily likeable???? [shock[

Sorry, more! That's also why it was slightly hilarious (if obvious) for Khalid's 'Young dumb and broke' (R&B/Soul) to be playing in the background during Freddie and Noli's conversation.

I assumed that what Lily was really saying was that Noli's dress was chav.

I like Lily. I think she's a good support to her mother. I think calling her racist is a bit of a stretch. Why would she be? I'm always banging on about preferring 'urban' living. I had no idea that I was potentially offending a proportion of the population. Durban is the third biggest city in SA (ie 'urban'). I've never heard a teenager use the word 'townie' when describing fashion before. And I don't think Lily realised that she was potentially insulting Noli either! She's obviously used to having people listen to her advice and act on it and Noli's never been to a hunt ball in a country village before. There's no harm in bringing Lily down a peg or two but racist? Really?

Well yes likeable in an overtop comedy character type way. I think we are meant to like her. But then again I assume we are meant to like pip.

"I'm always banging on about preferring 'urban' living. I had no idea that I was potentially offending a proportion of the population. "

You're not. Words can have more than one meaning. Who knew?

"urban" when applied to style or fashion relates to hip hop- music associated predominantly with black people. So Lily criticizing Noli's clothes as "...... urban ......" is definitely being racist.

Are the rest of you too overcome with nausea to comment on today's episode?

Lass - I haven't heard it - what happened?

I didn't think there was a lot to comment on. The inevitable reunion of Toby and Pip, with an audible kiss. Lillian found out about Matt having found the dog and argued with Matt and was devastated to hear that Matt would be gone for good next week. Some drama about the bucking bronco for the hunt ball. It was quite a dull episode.

I'm not sure I should post a spoiler but it it looks as if we will be hearing more from Pipsqueak and Tobe.

I think The Young say 'town' these days rather than 'townie'. As in, "I was in Croydon the other day, god, it's so town."

Kate Tempest is urban, Lemm Sissay is urban, my (black) hairdresser described a (white) reality pop show contestant as urban. It does, I think, denote an articulate, working-class, multi-racial, somewhat marginalised-experience-brought-centre-stage via this particular aesthestic edginess; so, fashion wise, would decidedly stand out at the rather rah Hunt Ball (where I imagine they are channelling Princess Di circa 1994). And it would therefore take a brave person to be the only one rocking that look. Hence Lily's note of warning. Which may have been a bit condescending, but racist? Nah.

Was it Fraser?

Cameron Fraser.

I think the TA scriptwriters may be over-estimating their audience's ability to understand the nuances of urban.

As for Matt and Lilian, I thought they'd already said goodbye forever, when she failed to meet Adam for tea. He's not meant to be back here now, was my understanding. There's surely only so many times he can just pop back for a couple of weeks to tidy up some loose ends.

How could Pip claim she couldn't remember why she went off Toby? If she hadn't listened to him she'd have put her hands up to her incompetence much earlier and the whole cattle escape disaster would have caused much less disaster. She lived through it, FFS, how could that slip her mind?

'Can't you do this one thing for me Lillian, you owe me that much surely'
Have I mentioned I loathe Matt.