What will it take for the Government to enact welfare reform?

[Schlossadler]

What has to break, before the Government is finally willing to enact welfare reform?

I certainly hope so (but fear it isn't).

Anyone with this attitude is presumably confident in being safe from experiencing this Dickensian nightmare but would be wise to remember that most of us are only a step or two away from being thrown into the workhouse they seem rather keen to bring back.

I agree with that too, and that’s why I am on the whole an advocate for cross-party, consensus driven politics. I think on both cuts and tax raises, pragmatism is key: will it ultimately cost more money than it saves through cost-shifting? Will a tax have unforeseen consequences? Economists like Dan Neidle are very strong on this, and in general I think governments should take more independent, research led advice.

If I could pin point a moment when I think the quality of our political discourse began to go downhill, I do think it would be Michael Gove saying, we’ve had enough of experts.

What cuts do you think could happen and if none then it means spending more. We’ve run out of room for borrowing.

Fair enough - I suppose my point is he’s not an economist or a tax expert, so I don’t think his opinion is anymore valid than - for example Gary Stevenson’s - on this. But you’re right - a plurality of views amongst successful people is a good thing, and we shouldn’t make lazy assumptions that everyone within a given tax bracket will think the same.

I personally don’t know what cuts should happen, because I’m just some woman on Mumsnet, not an expert - and if the government were to listen to my under-informed, knee-jerk instincts, that’d probably be a mistake. I am confident though that the Timms report, for example, will find evidence-based suggestions for cuts which could be pragmatic and effective.

He has moved to a tax haven so very little if he does. Pays business tax but that’s only because he can’t avoid that!

I looked up Timms and what is the likely backlash and various disability charities came up as opposing. So I guess we’ll see what Labour MPs do.

No, it’s broken - get out and have a look round.

You have happily accepted his tax and investment though, right?

That’s it. Why drive this out? Generally not just him. It’s madness.

Nearly £800m in child maintenance has gone unpaid since the CMS was created. It has extensive enforcement powers, but little apparent urgency about using them.

It’s utter stupidity - people should despair.

Wrong thread!🤣

Is that supposed to shut us up, close us down?

Labour sowed this rhetoric for political gain. It’s ridiculous.

As excited as people are it doesn’t mean more money is available. Probably less given it’s just tax hikes and borrowing spikes.

Yep, let’s revisit the numbers after 28th October.

Timms report most likely be a load of bureaucratic waffle

And we’ll see after winter. Even the last gov helped out with energy costs, Labour have no more borrowing available.

I expect some will stick no matter what. But it could get rocky.

Interesting so you want to make more work for the tax office and increase administration costs by making them checking who says silly, arguably racists stuff and stop them from paying tax…that’s not my position, it maybe yours, but if that’s the case it’s not smart.

We've also got all the usual nonsense on here about benefit fraud.

Estimated fraud and claimant error in the benefits system is between 1-3%, which is usually not reporting a change in circumstances.That's about £7bn.

This compares with uncollected tax at £59bn.

As for child benefit, the best and most successfully targetted measure to end child poverty is removing the child cap. Children are future citizens, and we want them to do well. The only way of doing this is to give their parents the money, however much this upsets people who think they are the "undeserving poor."

Careful analysis shows that child benefit is absolutely not a factor in people having extra children, and that most of the benefits these people get are in-work benefits. 40% of them have a disabled person in the family.

The other choice, to save a bit of money in the short term, is to let children stay in poverty to pwn the poor. Child poverty costs the UK £39bn a year, and this measure costs £3bn.

So, it lifts 450,000 kids out of poverty, costs £3bn, saves a lot more than that and yet people object to it.

FT

Britain’s biggest taxpayer Fred Done has said he is “too old” to join the ranks of rich residents leaving the country, but he would not be able to dissuade his children from moving to more tax-friendly nations.

The 83-year-old billionaire founder of gambling group Betfred told the FT he would “not wish to be reborn” in the UK and there were better opportunities for his family elsewhere. “They keep saying those with the broadest shoulders should be paying more tax. Well, how broad do my shoulders have to be? We paid £400mn in taxes as a family last year,” he said.

WTF are you talking about, genuinely.

The cap that has recently been lifted is nothing to do with child benefit, it’s the child element of universal credit. If you have multiple children and are on universal credit it can increase benefits considerably.