Will you make it to Heaven? Cont.

[VincitVeritas1]

Feel free to join me in a discussion about Heaven according to the Holy Bible/ Christianity in general.

@Kdtym10 you seem to think there is conflict between Jesus the man and His status as Christ?

No conflict, they’re two different things and not interchangeable

It might be easier to explain it this way. I see Jesus as a man Chosen or anointed by God for a special task (hence his Christ Status). All of us are in this position. We are all sons and daughters of God. We all have special tasks assigned to is, our true Will. If we find this and fulfill it, we can reach Christ status, our (re) union with God will be fulfilled. That is how Jesus saved us by fulfilling his true Will. That is how he is at one with the Father. It is through living by his example of fulfilling our own true Will like he did, we can reach union.

I fully realise this is not what the Orthodox Churches teaching say but this is how I read the Bible.

@Kdtym10 so as Jesus Christ is in perfect unity with God the Father then we can be in unity too by following His example.

So how are you deciding which of Jesus' teachings is relevant to you in Christ if you believe that your own 'true Will', as you put it, is different from His?

@Kdtym10

And also I have seen you moot the possibility on threads in the past that as you believe all things emanate from God, both good and evil, you believe God is responsible for both. So would then those that would do evil possibly be fulfilling their own 'true Will' from your perspective?

Oh I think most of them are relevant, I just might interpret them differently to you. By the same token I think the teaching of the Sufis is relevant, the teachings in the Kabbalah are relevant. The Nordic religions have great wisdom. The works of Blake, of Coleridge, of Yeats, off JK Rowling all have guidance if we look for it.

You see that’s how spiritual messages work, whether they’re in a holy book, form part of a spiritual system, messages obtained through divination they can all be interpreted to offer guidance on your spiritual path

I guess that is going to depend on how one defines evil. Are we just saying something that is unpalatable? I believe various ideas around the left hand path touch on that.

But to me all emanations of God need to be navigated. Balance is key.

Just flying by, trying to catch up with the thread. I won't be justifying every single thing on my previous list @Kdtym10 but will reply to your questions in due course.

I feel the Lord wants me to share this video from Doreen Virtue. She's a former New Age spiritualist and author, who specialised in divination cards and tarot reading. I believe this is meant for someone not actively taking part in this discussion, but following along with the thread in the background. The pendulum use she mentions particularly resonated:

Well, this lady clearly suffers from the zeal of the converted. Zealots don't give good advice.

Lol, I’m not new age but this lady has certainly been at the communion wine😂

But if I followed her advice I’d be naked, have no books, have burned the bible and a cross, have some hot gemstones in my back garden and polluted the atmosphere with a very big bonfire.

it reminds me of the satanic panic in the 80s. In the USA they tried to destroy iron Maidens number of the beast album by burning all the ones they could buy, then they got worried about inhaling the fumes of the devil so brought some more and started smashing them with hammers.

my concern about this woman is she really isn’t considering the fumes aspect! I mean I could be inhaling the literal fumes of hell as I burn my rider Waite smith

LOL @Kdtym10 that's hilarious. The focus on crystals also made me laugh. I mean, pointed crystal necklaces? Does she know anything about chemistry? Geology? All the reasons why crystals are the shape they are relate to the laws of nature. They are created that way, if you will. So. Much. Nonsense in that video. Impressionable people really shouldn't watch it.

I mean it’s not like the bible isn’t full of occult symbolism - look at the Gemstones on the pillars of the new Jerusalem in Revelation. Pure evil right there.,

is funny - not least because of the bored look on the kids faces, one is clearly thinking “wanker”.

As an aside what temp would I need to get up to to destroy my gemstones? I’m thinking my log burner just isn’t going to be sufficient

But to me all emanations of God need to be navigated. Balance is key.

@Kdtym10 and I believe the best way to navigate is to be lead by Jesus Christ as my Lord and Saviour. That, I believe, is my own 'true Will' to coin your term.

Regarding (other) spiritual practices I believe anything of power can be potentially dangerous if misused and hence I place my faith in Jesus Christ to lead me. I know of no better way to navigate. And people can misuse spiritual practices as I'm sure you are fully aware of.

@heyhohello any spiritual practice can be used for evil. That includes Christian religious practice.

But saying something is inherently bad for [insert made up reason] is just controlling foolish nonsense. I mean, an amethyst left in its natural (pointed crystalline) shape = occult, but that same amethyst, polished into cabochon shape and set into a jewelled cross = fiiiiiine. I call bullshit.

@pointythings, yes, Christian spiritual practices can be misused. The corruption and abuses committed by church organisations are tantamount to that. And the Bible warns about this also.

Regarding the crystals I think what the woman the video was on about is to avoid being tempted into a practice which would go against Christian beliefs or to avoid tempting others. As I have spoken about earlier misuse of spiritual practice is possible.

@pointythings

And I have plenty of gemstone jewellery which I know some people would attach spiritual significance to. They would to any gemstone or metal. It's impossible to have jewellery which doesn't have any spiritual significance within different belief systems. However, I would feel uncomfortable wearing anything overtly anti Christian though. Equally I don't enjoy song lyrics that are intended to be anti Christian.

Or books or any other media.

@heyhohello in the spirit of believing nothing should be immune from challenge, my own atheism included, I am happy to listen to.music that might be perceived as anti any religion. How does one define anti Christian music anyway? Is 'Sympathy for the Devil' anti Christian? Is Nik Kershaw's 'Monkey Business' anti Christian? I also have and wear a T shirt that says 'Science doesn't care about your beliefs'. If people can wear Jesus merch, I can wear the opposite (nit that I believe Science is never wrong; I mean, learning through getting it wrong is the point).

I would never wear a shirt saying things about sky fairies though.

But what is anti Christian?

Would these song lyrics be anti- Christian?

Are you a man of peace
Or a man of holy war?
Too many sides to you
Don't know which anymore
So many full of life
But also filled with pain
Don't know just how many
Will live to breathe again
A life that's made to breathe
Destruction or defense
A mind that's vain corruption
Bad or good intent
A wolf in sheep's clothing
Or saintly or sinner
Or some that would believe
A holy war winner
They fire off many shots
And many parting blows
Their actions beyond a reasoning
Only God would know
And as he lies in heaven
Or it could be in hell
I feel he's somewhere here
Or looking from below
But I don't know, I don't know
Please tell me now what life is
Please tell me now what love is
Well, tell me now what war is
Again, tell me what life is
More pain and misery in the history of mankind
Sometimes it seems more like
The blind leading the blind
It brings upon us more of famine, death and war
You know religion has a lot to answer for
Please tell me now what life is
Please tell me now what love is
Well, tell me now what war is
Again, tell me what life is
And as they search to find
The bodies in the sand
They find its ashes that are
Scattered across the land
And as the spirits seem to whistle on the wind
A shot is fired somewhere another war begins
And all because of it
You'd think that we would learn
But still the body count the city fires burn
Somewhere there's someone dying
In a foreign land
Meanwhile the world is crying
Stupidity of man
Tell me why?
Tell me why?
Please tell me now what life is
Please tell me now what love is
Well, tell me now what war is
Again, tell me what life is
Please tell me now what life is
Please tell me now what love is
Well, tell me now what war is
Again, tell me what life is
For the greater good of God
For the greater good of God
For the greater good of God
For the greater good of God
For the greater good of God
For the greater good of God
For the greater good of God
For the greater good of God
Please tell me now what life is
Please tell me now what love is
Well, tell me now what war is
Again, tell me what life is
Please tell me now what life is
Please tell me now what love is
Well, tell me now what war is
Again, tell me what life is
For the greater good of God
For the greater good of God
For the greater good of God
For the greater good of God
For the greater good of God
For the greater good of God
For the greater good of God
For the greater good of God
He gave his life for us
He fell upon the cross
To die for all of those
Who never mourn his loss
It wasn't meant for us
To feel the pain again
Tell me why?
Tell me why?

I feel the Lord wants me to share this video from Doreen Virtue

I'm sorry but that's hilarious. Are you her?

No one is going to go out and burn their Tarot cards because you shared that video.

These are one of my favourite sets- I’m certainly not burning any of them- willing to give up my kyballion though if anyone wants it

@pointythings & @Kdtym10 just songs that lyrics sadden/disturb me as a Christian I don't really enjoy listening to. I might appreciate them on some musical level but wouldn't want to sing along. One that springs to mind is System of A Down's Chop Suey. Although I like the song on one level, the musicality, the lyrics disturb me. I do listen to it occasionally but don't enjoy the lyrics. Wouldn't sing along. Just as I feel uncomfortable singing along to Stone Roses Waterfall. Just like I don't enjoy war poetry. Or war photography. Lyrics can sadden me. Art can sadden me. I might appreciate the meaning, consider them, appreciate them as art, see a kind of beauty in them but they can sadden me

@Kdtym10, the song you posted I could listen to. The lyrics would take some dismantling, though.

Equally, last time I watched Bram Stoker's Dracula, I felt very emotional regarding the Dracula character. His life / undead state was so tragic.