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Original poster

'She believes we're decended from apes!'

194 replies

Bumperlicioso · 04/04/2011 21:58

Said with incredulous laughter by a very religious acquaintance. Does religion preclude a belief in evolution? Apparently there is nothing to support it according to same acquaintance.

OP posts:
gaelicsheep · 04/04/2011 22:02

Without wanting to offend anyone, I'm afraid I do believe there is an inverse relationship between fundamental religious belief and intelligence. Lack of intelligence and/or an enquiring mind would preclude a belief in evolution if they don't understand it.

Middlemarchlover · 04/04/2011 22:03

Not necessarily :) I'm a Christian and believe in evolution. I do believe that God created the world and the organisms within this world, but through the process of evolution rather than Creationism. The story of the Creation is just a metaphor in my eyes, and most of my Christian friends would say the same.

SpringchickenGoldBrass · 04/04/2011 22:04

Having just done some work relating to what people believe I have been quite amazed to find that there actually are those mental enough to disbelieve evolution and indeed insist that creationism should be taught in science classes at school.
They all looked fairly normal, as well. Most alarming.

ginmakesitallok · 04/04/2011 22:05

Agree with gaelicsheep. (oh - and evolution doesn't mean we're descended from apes...)

pozzled · 04/04/2011 22:07

Most of my religious friends have a similar belief to middlemarchlover that God used evolution, or guided it in some way.

TheFallenMadonna · 04/04/2011 22:08

I have a religious faith. I am not a creationist. I think there is good evidence that humans and apes evolved from a common ancestor. I think there's a lot of misunderstandings about evolution from all sorts of people.

TheFallenMadonna · 04/04/2011 22:08

Oh, and I'm a science teacher!

PunkPixie · 04/04/2011 22:13

My Gran accuses me of "going through a phase" when I tell her that I do not believe in the theory of everything the way she does.

She's a hard-line Catholic and trying to talk to her about evolution is like banging my head off of a brick wall (As it is with most things concerning her religion)

I wouldn't even discuss itw ith her if not for the fact that she insists on ramming her bible down my throat at every opportunity.

She can think whats he likes as can the rest of my Catholic relations. I just wish they'd afford me the same courtesy.

TheFallenMadonna · 04/04/2011 22:14

I'm also a Catholic...

Unusual for catholics to be creationists IME.

Original poster
Bumperlicioso · 04/04/2011 22:16

I accept that I am probably not well versed in the science of evolution, but it was the incredulity that her friend (also religious apparently) could believe in that sort of thing. When I asked another member of the group, also religious, whether her religion precluded a belief in evolution she said something along the lines of 'I'm cool with evolution' in a way that she doesn't believe in it but she is happy other people do. They were talking about god breathing life into us so when in evolution was that supposed to have happened.

OP posts:
PunkPixie · 04/04/2011 22:16

True, Fallenmadonna. My Gran is a very rare and special creature...

SpringchickenGoldBrass · 05/04/2011 00:49

Certainly not all Christians are creationists. But some are. I have met a few in the last few days.

ElBurroSinNombre · 05/04/2011 10:45

One of the basic misunderstandings or contradictions to me, of the view that god 'allowed' evolution to happen, is that the evolutionary process is necessarily unguided. Evolution relies on random mutations and how well they adapt to the physical environment.

AMumInScotland · 05/04/2011 13:02

We've had a few debates on here about it, and most Christians do believe in evolution to at least some extent, though for some it's more in terms of "the changes clearly did happen over time, but God was directing it" rather than really evolution by natural selection.

I think most people who don't believe in evolution at all, have never had a very good explanation of how it works, as their arguments against it are usually nonsense. They seem to be arguing against some weird "straw man" version of evolution which has never been taught in science classes, and only ever described by Creationists in order to rubbish it.

Personally I ^do believe that God "allowed" evolution to happen, but only because God set up the natural laws of physics etc which make the world work the way it does - the process of evolution then followed from those basic natural laws, without any need for intervention. So unguided evolution, but starting from God....

BaggedandTagged · 05/04/2011 13:09

One of the basic misunderstandings or contradictions to me, of the view that god 'allowed' evolution to happen, is that the evolutionary process is necessarily unguided. Evolution relies on random mutations and how well they adapt to the physical environment.

Ok, so maybe God pretty much said "as you were" or "let's see what happens with these fish that appear to be growing legs"

I know a lot of Christians and they all believe in evolution and think that creationalism was just a story/metaphor

CoteDAzur · 05/04/2011 13:09

I have also met quite a few Catholics who literally believe that God created people as they currently are - Homo Sapiens. This is puzzling, given the hoards of evidence from previous versions like Homo Erectus, Neandarthals (whom we are not descended from) etc.

CoteDAzur · 05/04/2011 13:10

Bagged - That understanding of a creator is called "Watchmaker God".

CoteDAzur · 05/04/2011 13:13

"Watchmaker God" does not quite align with Christian beliefs, as it does not allow for the thought that God made man in his image, that people were his special creation made to rule the world, that only men get to go to Heaven when they are good etc. It also does not fit in with the belief that God will intervene in your fortunes if you pray hard enough.

PunkPixie · 05/04/2011 13:14

CoteDAzur your post describes pretty much all of the maternal half of my family.

Kendodd · 05/04/2011 13:14

I'm not religious, but I am unsure.

I believe in evolution(how could anyone not, it happens before our eyes) and I have watched the explanations Brian Cox makes about the nature of the universe of the and believe that. But, there are lots of things he can't explain, what happened before big bang etc, could god be there? I think more likely science just hasn't explained that yet.

As for you friend, I don't think you will ever get her to even consider any other explanation of live on earth.

I think people who don't believe in evolution, at least to some degree, are nutters.

BaggedandTagged · 05/04/2011 13:18

Cote- I suppose like with all religions there are degrees, and there are people who believe that every word of the bible is true, right through to people who believe that the moral code is a good one, and that Jesus probably existed but think a lot of the bible was based on knowledge at the time and is probably not right (eg my mum)

Kendodd · 05/04/2011 13:21

I had a friend once to believed we are all descended from Adam and Eve and that all the evidence against that was planted by the devil.

newlark · 05/04/2011 13:34

Has anyone read Lee Stroebel's "Case for a Creator"? He used to be an atheist but became a Christian (he alse wrote "Case for Christ"). I have only read a little but the gist seems to be that the idea of a creator God and "good" science are not incompatible (and comments on a lot of the "bad" science i.e. non peer-reviewed, incorrect assumptions, selective reporting etc)

Niecie · 05/04/2011 13:39

I would say creationists are few and far between and tbh I haven't ever met one despite being a regular church goer. In recent years, my father has decided that Adam and Eve is fact but he has dementia and believes all sorts of things that clearly aren't true so I take everything he says with a pinch of salt. Other than that, no I don't believe that religion precludes a belief in evolution and nor do most Christians I would suspect, certainly not those from the UK.

Science can't explain everything and probably never will but I think we have enough scientific evidence to support the theories of evolution. That says nothing whatsoever about whether God exists though which is an entirely separate question. IMO, not that is relevant, if there is a God he was a catalyst for creation but he didn't create a ready formed world in 7 days.

PunkPixie · 05/04/2011 13:51

My own theory is somewhat odd and I fear this is where I might get jeered off the stage a la Charlie Sheen, but here goes. I thought about it while I was watching a programme on Discovery about the evolution of the universe and at first I totally dismissed it- before I realised that I couldn't disprove it.

It's a theory that the uiverse is a living thing. I only thought of it because the universe started off as a tiny, tiny mass that grew and expanded and will eventually die. Is that not what living things do?

And look at us and all animal life. We take directly from the universe to sustain ourselves in the same way that our bodies take from us so maybe we're all just parts of the universe. We get vitamin D from the sun, for example. Everything we're made of is from the universe.

I'm not saying I believe it, I'm just saying that I can't disprove it either.