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Original poster

'She believes we're decended from apes!'

194 replies

Bumperlicioso · 04/04/2011 21:58

Said with incredulous laughter by a very religious acquaintance. Does religion preclude a belief in evolution? Apparently there is nothing to support it according to same acquaintance.

OP posts:
spiderslegs · 22/05/2011 06:12

More importantly Vic - Coffee lost her relationship with capital letters around the same time she lost her grip on reality.....

coffeewhitenosugar · 22/05/2011 19:49

Vic, nothing really 'happened' a year ago, I just changed my mind - I suppose I had never really thought about it or looked into it in all seriousness before and when I did I decided I wanted to believe the Bible. I also don't believe that dinosaurs died out due to over-enthusiastic wooing! Grin I probably think they didn't make it onto the ark along with the two-toed horse!!! Wink.
(Sorry about capital letters Spider, it was very late when I typed my reply last night and I couldn't be bothered to press the shift key!)

onagar · 22/05/2011 20:01

coffeewhitenosugar, I for one am glad you are here posting. :o

You see some christians have spotted how daft it all sounds and have taken to editing it a bit so it doesn't sound quite so mad. They are giving religion a good name by saying "oh well of course evolution is true and all those bits about killing gay people don't count"

What we atheists need is more people willing to stand up and say that God made it all and that he put fake fossils in to confuse people. To proclaim that every single crazy self contradicting verse is true.

Presumably since you believe everything the bible says then you do kill any gay people you meet and anyone wearing polyester and cotton shirts? Are you having any difficulty with the authorities over that? :)

bruxeur · 22/05/2011 20:14

Oh I love fundies. And I have Pimms!

Double lazy Sunday treat.

VictorianIce · 22/05/2011 20:20

Coffee, I really don't mean to sound critical, although it's difficult not to when my beliefs are so diametrically opposed to your own. This probably reads as an attack on your faith - and I don't want you to think I'm attacking you - I'm really fascinated by what it is that's convinced you that the bible is speaking the literal truth. I'm assuming from your comments that you also believe in the flood as a true event.
May I ask what looking into it 'in all seriousness' means? Lots of those creationist sites can be very convicing, looked at in isolation, but even spekaing as a non-scientist, a very small amount of reading into evolution debunks all of their arguments.
I wasn't being facetious with the bit about dragons either, there is an essay on the site you linked to making those very claims.

NoWayNoHow · 22/05/2011 20:26

I'm a Christian and I totally believe in evolution. I think any scientific mind would question interspecies evolution, but not intraspecies evolution, but there's nothing to preclude believing in evolution and believing in God.

I believe in a creator who set in motion the beginnings of our universe and that it has followed a plan according to him. Evolution, to me, is just part of that plan.

I think it's a very narrow minded person who believes that the creation story of the bible is utterly literal. So it says the world was created in 7 days - who's to say that 7 days to God is 7 days to us?? We invented the 24 hour day, so to hold the creation story to those parameters seems slightly self-absorbed IMO.

VictorianIce · 22/05/2011 20:35

There's nothing to preclude believing in evolution and god if you believe that god has no part in the day-to-day running of the world. And there's not much point in a god like that, surely? It's just a lazy excuse not to ask scientific questions.

Surely the 24hr day is noon-noon? We didn't invent that - it's how long the earth takes to rotate, based on its size and various distances and gravitational pulls.

jade80 · 22/05/2011 20:41

The only appropriate response to someone who says 'she believes we're descended from apes!' is 'Ha ha, isn't she silly! Anyone with any education knows that the theory is we have a common ancestor with apes, not that we are descended from apes!'

Sadly some people think creationism is a scientific theory- hmm, whatever!

jade80 · 22/05/2011 20:43

''Vic, nothing really 'happened' a year ago, I just changed my mind - I suppose I had never really thought about it or looked into it in all seriousness before and when I did I decided I wanted to believe the Bible. I also don't believe that dinosaurs died out due to over-enthusiastic wooing! I probably think they didn't make it onto the ark along with the two-toed horse!!! .
(Sorry about capital letters Spider, it was very late when I typed my reply last night and I couldn't be bothered to press the shift key!)''

The two toed horse? What? That's a new one on me, and I thought I knew about equine evolution!

GrimmaTheNome · 22/05/2011 20:44

Quite so Jade, except I'd say 'all the evidence is that we are descended from a common ancestor'. Creationists tend to wilfully (or ignorantly) misunderstand the word 'theory'.

jade80 · 22/05/2011 21:02

Well yes, I quite agree, your suggestion would be better. After all, any reasonable person would say that a theory is something that can be tested and proved or disproved using the resulting evidence... while a creationist might think that any fairy tale counts as a theory.

NoWayNoHow · 22/05/2011 21:18

victorian of course we didn't invent how long the earth takes to rotate on its axis Confused

However, we labelled it "a day" so when the bible was written it would have been with that label in mind.

VictorianIce · 23/05/2011 07:07

Oh good, I'm glad you know that. But don't pull wiggly faces at me; you can never be too careful when you're dealing with people who think that a skyfairy made a woman out of a spare rib. You might be one of the sensible ones (see Onagar's post, above) but I can't possibly know that when I've never spoken to you before, can I? Smile

PfftTheMagicDragon · 23/05/2011 07:24

I have a Christian friend who believes in evolution to a degree. She thinks that evolution occurs within species - but nothing further than that.

NoWayNoHow · 23/05/2011 07:50

victorian, ignoring your utterly inflammatoy language, how about you work on the assumption that you're not entitled to judge someone's beliefs whether you've met them or not?

CoteDAzur · 23/05/2011 11:33

We are entitled to judge others' beliefs.

Like the ones who believe it's ok to hit children. Or those who believe it's ok to visit prostitutes.

How about the morons who believed that Rapture was going to happen the other day?

NoWayNoHow · 23/05/2011 11:39

Cote are you genuinely suggesting that hitting children and visiting prostitutes are beliefs???

That's called behaviour - not even remotely close to a belief system. High;ly representative of a cocked-up moral compass, however...

GrimmaTheNome · 23/05/2011 11:46

The religious lady in the OP clearly had few qualms about judging other peoples beliefs.

NoWayNoHow · 23/05/2011 13:25

grimma you're right - she was utterly judgey. Respect goes both ways, and no-one should be ridiculing anyone's beliefs. That's just mean-spirited and spiteful.

No-one can change how others behave, but we can still treat people how we would like to be treated.

onagar · 23/05/2011 14:29

Behaviour is based on what the person believes is right or wrong. So (for example) if a group said that killing gay people was god's will then it would be appropriate for me to disapprove of it.

This is totally different to disapproving of a group of people who are a different color as color has no bearing on Behaviour.

CoteDAzur · 23/05/2011 16:35

Behaviours (like crossing oneself) come from beliefs (like belief in Christian God). Some people hit children, because they believe that it is ok to hit children and/or that this is what discipline is about. I judge that and obviously so do you.

Some people believe (and this they say is a religious belief) that women's outside genitalia need to be amputated and the remainder stitched shut, otherwise known as Female Genital Mutilation. I judge this belief. Don't you?

CoteDAzur · 23/05/2011 16:40

Now, you might think that those beliefs are ridiculous whereas yours feels oh so true, but I assure you, yours does not look any less ridiculous from where I sit.

CoteDAzur · 23/05/2011 16:44

I agree with you that ridiculing others' beliefs is mean-spirited and spiteful, but there is nothing wrong with judging said beliefs, or even pointing out their shortcomings in a civil manner to the more intellectual faithful who will respond by engaging in discussion in a similar manner.

GrimmaTheNome · 23/05/2011 17:20

I don't think its unreasonable to judge a belief in the light of the behaviours it may encourage. Clearly enough the belief that the Bible is correct to say 'spare the rod and spoil the child' is a contributory factor to cases of children being beaten.

Its also not unreasonable to judge a belief versus observable facts. On that basis, the belief in evolution as the tool of God isn't totally irrational. Creationism is completely irrational and self-deluding.

MirandaGoshawk · 23/05/2011 17:31

Just marking my place. Interesting discussion.