ABC IVF thread continued

[StarryHannah]

Our other thread is now full so thought I would start this one to continue the chat.

@Beaglemum91 I'm waiting for my period so I can start meds for FET so that is really helpful information about the embryo transfer process. Thank you. Did you have your partner on Facetime or anything for it?

@Icsi2021 so excited for you xxx

@Aimes2021 so strange! I wonder if they are trying out a new medicine, she did say that they have had good results over the last few months. I might be a guinea pig? Any way not going to overthink it, the results from various studies look good and similar to bemfola, which supports what she said.

@Herehoping93 I am so sorry you have had such a hard time with misdiagnosis etc. I think there is some benefit to doing egg retrieval now and making embryos as we know that younger eggs are more likely to be higher quality. That way whilst you are waiting to get the tube issue fix you are still moving forward to the goal of baby. Also apparently the success rates of fresh vs frozen transfers are similar so I wouldn't be discouraged by that. So I know it isn't what you wanted to hear and what you had in mind but there could be a suitable alternative solution within this turn of events. Take all the time you need to think about it. I say still have the consultation to hear what they have to say and then it can help further inform you to make a decision.

I am sorry the nurse was so blunt and not compassionate in her delivery, that is really unfortunate and caused unnecessary upset. I hope you feel better soon

@AkiHope2021, congratulations! That’s fantastic. Wishing you a happy and healthy nine months x

@AkiHope2021 such good news congratulations!!!! 🎉🎉🎉

@Icsi2021 congratulations on 4 embryos! That's great! So close now xx

@Aimes2021 yes they finally emailed me and also called me too which was good. I haven't done the virology bloods yet, she said I can do it when I go in for bloods. Have you?

@AkiHope2021 congratulations and a happy healthy 9 months! X

@Hoping4baby21 that is strange. I haven't actually researched into it myself- I probably should 🤣

They haven't added antibiotics yet as I'm prone to thrush when on antibiotics and want to avoid using caneston if I can! She told me just to let them know on egg collection that I haven't been given antibiotics.

Which antibiotics were you prescribed? X

@Prayingforabubba, ah that's good that they got in touch. I'm also waiting until first scan to get virology bloods. Abx wise have been given a couple of days of co-amoxiclav. Makes sense with history of thrush that you don't have them though. So soon now eek!!

@Prayingforabubba oh I'm glad they finally sent you the information must have just been an oversight.
The cynic in my wonders if they are just giving me a different medication because otherwise if the prescribed bemfola it would have been the EXACT same protocol as create which would have come in at £6.5k but that is me being very paranoid lmao! But also would make sense and is exactly the reason I wanted to consult with ABC because why pay more for the same!

The antibiotic is called clo-amoxiclav 500mg/125mg 1 tablet x 9. Id prefer not to take antibiotics because I'm trying to improve my gut health and they strip all the good bacteria but also don't want an infection so will do as I'm told.

Did they say there was an alternative option if you don't want the antibiotics? If they are just going to give you them at EC why not order them now?

Argh I'm so curious about all these decisions I work best with too much information vs too little lol

@AkiHope2021 congratulations!xx

@Hoping4baby21, that is kind of madness to me that the same protocol can cost thousands more! Can I ask what made you go to Create first? With my doctor hat on, I think the course of abx is short and hopefully won't disturb the gut bacteria too much. Can always take probiotics as well to counteract any effect.

@Aimes2021 we went to create over ABC first simply because we found them first. But even before finding a clinic I knew I wanted mild IVF once I learned it was a thing and the benefits of it. It was only after booking the consultation that we found ABC but the wait time for the consultation was longer and would have meant more delays. So we carried on and then asked if we could move over and they said yes.

I get that nurse led care would cost less but it just doesn't add up. I'm not sure what other differences there are? Any add ons would be chargeable on top of the higher price any way, so it can't be that. EC and ET are done at create as well, so it can't be say less qualified embryologist etc. ABC seem to outsource more so they don't have a lab to do bloods they use the lad nearby (Harley Street - not sure about others) the embryologists and those labs are at the Create clinic so I suppose those overheads are also reduced. I am soooo curious in regards to their business model. Could simply be that the price for other places is highly inflated and ABC is closer to the true cost 🤷🏽‍♀️

Thanks for the Dr's insight to the antibiotics, that is reassuring ☺️ Will purchase some more prebiotic as I'm running low!

@Hoping4baby21, I'm fascinated too at how their business model works. I think the discrepancies between Create and abc have to be mostly staffing related if they genuinely use the same drugs and like you say anything additional is charged on top. I was under the Evewell for ovulation induction and their IVF pricing was eye watering, approx £7000 for 1 complete cycle. Is it really just the increased doses of meds compared to the mild stimulation done at create/abc that you pay for? There was a Panorama documentary a few years back about the fertility industry and unethical practices with add ons, might try and find it.

@Aimes2021 agree must be mostly staff (although they have said that they consult with create team every week on cases so they still provide input). I don't think it is solely due to higher meds because like I said Create suggested 150 for me aswell. Perhaps with other clinics but from my research there are some occasions where higher does are advantageous but for the "normal" responder a starting dose of 150 is sufficient and garners higher quality eggs. So overall to me it makes no sense (at this stage) to pay more for more drugs that won't necessarily change my outcomes. Unless of course we discover a reason for this afterwards.

I reckon the pricing at IVF clinics is primarily to maximise profit but also to compete. Most clinics are competing with each other, if Create randomly popped up on the scene as a like for like clinic such as Evewell or Care but charged less I reckon people would be suspicious and they would likely lose business. Open a sister clinic brand it as affordable IVF with support of its "more advanced" sister clinic and voila people feel they get the best of both worlds. Very smart.

I've heard people say mild IVF is a waste of time which I do not believe but create would have already had that hurdle to jump over adding the questions of "your cheaper what's the catch" wouldn't make much sense.

Just catching up so please bear with me if I miss anything/anyone.

@Hoping4baby21 Aw! Bath is lovely! I hope you enjoy it! I got married a week before lockdown last year so we still haven't had a honeymoon and probably won't get one if a baby comes first! We might have a staycation, it just depends on how much IVF will cost us. Thanks for the list of examination results required. My last STD test was in 2017 😂 But I was swabbed for an infection back in October which came back all clear so I hope that covered STDs as well! How are things going? You've probably mentioned it already, but when's AF due? (I should probably start keeping track of where everyone is in an excel spreadsheet 😂😂😂)

@Aimes2021 exciting stuff! I'll be watching closely to see how you get on. Congrats again on getting the green light.

@kittyfantastico21 are there obvious symptoms for hyper- or hypo- thyroidism? I've never been tested for it but I'm hoping mine are a at normal levels

@Icsi2021 Amazing news!! So happy for you. Everything worked out beautifully! You must be so chuffed! It just proves that all you need is one sperm! Congrats lovely! Fingers crossed for tomorrow!

@HopingForRainbow2021 were you able to get any info yesterday about the degeneration?

@Herehoping93 It's shocking that they didn't investigate properly and put it down as IBS. They should have checked your ovaries, that would have saved you a whole world of trouble and heartache but at least you know what's going on and steps can be taken to finally get you your baby 💕 Hopefully it can all be sorted in time for August.

Aww that toxic uterus comments was very mean and uncalled for - sending hugs. I've heard frozen is sometimes more successful than fresh transfer so it might be worth freezing them now to take advantage of your youth. You don't know how slow things would move on the NHS.

I'm thinking about putting myself on the NHS waiting list but I know private will move quicker so I'll do both just in case. My scan is on 25th May, so weeks away 😅 it'll be at abc Wimbledon too.

Your DP's SA is pretty similar to mine, although mine's motility was 64% so yours definitely has really really good swimmers. Perfect to fertilise those eggs. @pileapetals was able to go for normal IVF instead of ICSI so you might be fine with normal IVF too.

@unCliche omg yes! I have literally thought the same, I find it so hard to keep track of where everyone is 🤦🏽‍♀️. Thought it was just me. My AF is due 16th May, it likes to start in the PM so injections probably won't start until Tuesday 18th May as that will be my D2. Your cycle is a little later than some of ours right, June?

I'm down on NHS aswell have a meeting next week actually will see what they say. Good idea to keep both options open. Our thought process was wait times on NHS but in meantime can proceed with private.

@Aimes2021 @Hoping4baby21

I've had thrush from co amoxiclav and amoxicillin 🙄 thank you asthma! The last time felt unbearable so I'm scared as don't want to become uncomfortable down there but I've read you can get thrush from the pessaries too! I'll just wait and see what they say on egg collection.

My medication got delivered today and I'm so excited 🙏🏼

My husbands recent sperm analysis got sent. Could anyone have a look and tell me your thoughts? I think it has improved from the first one but I think we will still need icsi.

This is the most recent one! X

@Herehoping93 that's awful that you weren't taken seriously and were misdiagnosed at A&E. I'm glad you've finally got some answers. I hope your consultation goes well and they can help you plan the best way forward.

@AkiHope2021 congratulations! Wonderful news! Wishing you a very healthy pregnancy.

@unCliche I think hypothyroidism is one of those things where the symptoms are things that could be symptoms of anything or nothing. The main one is tiredness, but also sensitivity to cold, depression, weight gain, it can affect menstrual cycle. And then hyperthyroidism is the opposite, so restlessness, rapid heart-rate, sensitivity to heat. Tbh I never experienced any symptoms (well, sure, tiredness, but everyone I know is tired! I don't think I felt 'medically tired'.) And I didn't notice any difference to my energy level or anything when I started taking thyroxine.

@Prayingforabubba yay, exciting to have medication arrive! Mine is being delivered tomorrow. I don't know anything about sperm analysis I'm afraid.

@Prayingforabubba I'm not well versed in SA but it looks like there have been improvements and I think that the only parameter below normal values is morphology (normal forms) but it's 3% vs minimum 4%. I imagine they would still push for ICSI as there are some parameters below and they want best chance of fertilisation. Best to talk with the clinic. Some anecdotal stories suggest that clinics can be flexible and depending on the same on the day they can either do ICSI or not as the same changes each time so could improve more for example.

What have they said? Did they make any suggestion when you got the results back?

I booked my medication to arrive Wednesday but I keep thinking am I cutting it fine hi h is silly because I know when I ovulated 🤦🏽‍♀️ Just being impatient now lol

@Hoping4baby21 I spoke to a few clinics when considering who to go with (including Evewell). One of the clinics mentioned that Evewell (still fairly new at the time) had poached some of the top staff members from various clinics in London when forming their team and I imagine that a large part of the IVF prices charged goes towards paying the higher salaries of said staff. The Evewell staff are extremely thorough and professional based on our calls with them - you could tell they were of a higher standard.

But ultimately once we got the breakdown of total costs, their fees were "eyewatering", as @Aimes2021 said, and we decided against it.

But yes, the Create/ABC approach is very smart as a fair number would end up at Create if it turns out they don't fit the ABC criteria.

Thanks @Hoping4baby21 for taking the time to have a look. We've been told to do icsi from his first SA but I'd assume we would still continue with that which is fine by me! Whatever it takes to get my bubba 🙏🏼 Hubby is over the moon with the improvement 🤣

I also was worried I left meds too late. They got delivered today but af is due on Sunday. I'm fully expecting her to be late as I don't have a at of my usual pms symptoms.

Enjoying a long hot bath as I know I won't be able to for the next few weeks!

@Prayingforabubba, I hear you, my AF is late, why do our bodies insist on torturing us!!

@Prayingforabubba, that SA looks a lot better. When was the first one done? Congrats on the meds, one step closer! ☺️

@Aimes2021 he did his previous one in December . Btw I did buy the Emla cream- was a nightmare but I got it, fingers crossed it helps! Got my pantyliners ready 🤣 af I'm ready when you are!

@Prayingforabubba @Aimes2021 hope your periods arrive soon so you can get started!

My meds arrived so that’s exciting. But when I was putting them in the fridge one of the bemfola boxes fell on the floor. I opened the box to check it and the syringe was securely held into the little cardboard slots and no sign of damage but there were two quite big air bubbles. So I’m quite anxious now that I might have ruined one of the doses before I’ve even got started :-/ I feel so ill-equipped to be injecting myself soon!

@kittyfantastico21 eeek! When is af due? A few of us starting together which is great 😊

I haven't even opened the boxes yet, just put them into the fridge. I might not even look lol and just get my husband to inject because of my fear of needles!

Is anyone else doing icsi other than me?

@Icsi2021hope your transfer went well if you did end up transferring yesterday 🙏🏼

@Prayingforabubba not until 18th but I wanted a Saturday delivery to avoid chance of being stuck in a meeting when it arrived. I might get in touch with the clinic/Fertility2u on Monday to check I’m still okay to use the one that got dropped, just to help me stop feeling anxious over it. I feel so incompetent!

Yes, so nice to have a few of us starting around the same time! Although I’ll be about a week/week and a half behind you.

We shouldn’t need ICSI as we’re using donor sperm.