Is there anything sensible to read about Diane Abbott?

[Sparetoes]

I quite like her.

She's a black woman who's achieved great things from a very working class background, including going to Cambridge. She's clearly not stupid, although there's been huge industry around making her appear so.

It seems to me an awful lot of "peoples' perception of her is bourne out of racisim and misogyny, though she's clearly made mistakes too.

Is there anything balanced to read?

It’s just classic bully behaviour - turn it round and make yourself the victim.

Everyone can see whose posts were deleted and it wasn’t any of mine (except ones that quoted deleted posts)

How have I been antisemitic?

Me NOT immediately saying that someone else (in this instance DA) is antisemitic or racist without first reading what you said was the proof of it makes me antisemitic?

My opinion is that Starmer couldn't wait to get rid of Diane because she's a socialist & close friend of Corbyn.

That's not the reason that's been asserted here though of course none of you can seemingly speak plainly & say what you actually mean.

It may come a shock that not everything posted here is about you.

But I have no idea if you’re antisemitic. You may be, you may not be. I don’t know. What I DO know is you’re skirting around giving a proper opinion about particular comments in a VERY antisemitic letter by a woman who, earlier on in this thread, you defended and played ignorant when asked about your thoughts on her antisemitism (even though it appears you DID know about her comments). You

gave a half opinion about racial visibility but not only does this not address her particular antisemitic comments but you refused to read my reply as to why it’s NOT in fact always true that Jewish people escape racism because they (sometimes) aren’t visibly Jewish. You took a strop and refused to read my post IIRC.

I think if someone has the opportunity to show they aren’t antisemitic, but instead spend several days not doing this but instead behave affronted because they (wrongly) think they’ve been called antisemitic - well, that makes me think I can’t say for sure that you’re not.

My opinion is that Starmer couldn't wait to get rid of Diane because she's a socialist & close friend of Corbyn.

Yay, more skirting

I didn’t actually realise she was close to another antisemite. But that’s not in any way addressing her actual antisemitic comments. Because no matter your thoughts on her comments about the racism black people experience, she didn’t need to them make a comment comparing Jewish people to redheads - but she did. And you still aren’t addressing those comments.

Its very interesting.

More skirting. Now it’s “I don’t know enough about racism to say wether or not Diane Abbott was racist”. Comparing it to knowing about paediatric stroke is ludicrous. Did you know using the N word is racist?? If so, how do you know?

Also I posted a pretty long explanation of why and how Jewish people experience racism. That right there was your opportunity to be educated, but you refused to read itS

You don’t fool me - spending days avoiding a question only to claim you need time to decide on wether something racist, is racist, doesn’t really wash.

You're no better than a playground bully.

And yet it’s you not me having the personal attacks deleted.

Indidnt call you anti-Semitic and have already said you may or may not be, it’s hard to tell. But I’m about 4 days passed caring now TBH

I have wonderful Jewish friends who are generous in their willingness to educate with understanding & good hearts.

Im amazed you have Jewish friends but apparently need a considerable amount of time to decide if comparing the discrimination Jewish people experience to that of redheads is antisemitic. I’m surprised having Jewish friends you’ve never ever considered antisemitism before.

Interesting indeed

I could barely even be arsed to read that. Your posts were offensive and provocative and BTW it wasn’t me who reported any of them.

I have no interest in replying to you and think you’re a bad faith actor

Hwve a good evening

I think children being carpet bombed, no matter where they live, their parents choices, religion or race is ... offensive & provocative.

Elfblossom. I've been watching this thread with growing horror.
Kindly, give it a rest.

She’s a hypocrite.

Erm ... kindly, No.

I don't like liars and I don't like bullies and I won't be quiet about the injustices in the world, especially right right now.

What does this have to do with Diane Abbott or antisemitism? Are you doing that thing where you conflate Jews with Israel?

I'm not the one who brought Jews, antisemitism or Israel into the thread.

Ask the person who did what their intent was.

Isn't this the first mention of Israel? And one you made in response to a discussion about antisemitism? Did you know that conflating Jews and Israel is an antisemitic thing to do?

A poster brought up Jews in relation to a comment Diane Abbot made, presumably about British Jews. You decided to turn this into a conversation about Palestine as if all Jews are one and the same.

I believe the subject of Jewish people being subjected to increasing incidents of abuse (which absolutely do NOT condone) was raised by someone and the reason for that, is what's being done to the people of Palestine in the name of Jews.

and no, I don't believe it to be true that jews are all one and the same. For example, there are lots of Jewish people all around the world protesting about the genocide in Palestine.

You mean Diane Abbots comments about the Jews in April 2023 were a result of increased hate the Jews are getting for the genocide post October 2023? How psychic of her.

You are the one who brought Palestinians into a conversation around anti-semetic remarks made about Jews in the UK in a conversation that until that point had nothing to do with Jews in Israel.

So you were the one bringing Israel into the thread despite blaming it on other posters and questioning their intent.

What was your intent on bringing up the genocide in Palestine in a conversation about British Jews and a comment made about them pre October 2023?

How is this post still allowed? "In the name of Jews" - what the fuck? You're actively conflating Jews and Israel again and again while pretending it's others doing it. But it isn't. It's you. You're the one conflating the two and that's not an ok thing to do. Please just stop.

I'm not pretending anything.

I find conversations like this difficult to have online because quite often, people don't say what they mean. For someone who's not neurotypical it's incredibly difficult to follow and ends up in knots.

Just say what you mean in plain terms.

If you are Jewish and feel offended then please explain why and I'll do better.

Though I think I speak for a lot of people when I say, as i did previously, that people who aren't Jewish feel stuck because we're not allowed to say anything for fear of saying it wrong or being misinterpreted or misleading and then having THIS experience.

Again I ask, what is it that you want?

I have always admired her although she may not always be easy to like . (But why should she be anyway?)
DH, a staunch Labour supporter, went right off her when she sent her son to an independent school but I thought she knew what she was doing there. Black boys in Hackney might not have had an easy time at school then and there was a big gang culture.
She put her son's interests and welfare ahead of her political beliefs and took a lot of flak for it. I'd have done the same if I were in her position. .

Quietly awaiting the indignant 'it's not my job to explain to you why you're wrong speech ... Then, how is anyone ever supposed to understand, learn, grow?

No one should be so scared of saying the wrong thing that instead they say and do nothing even in the face of something utterly wrong.

In plain words:

Saying what is happening in Gaza is "in the name of Jews" is anti semitic. It is Israel, not Jews around the world who are committing the genocide.

In the same way that all Buddhists aren't responsible for what is happening/has happened to the Hui in Tibet.

In the same way that all Hindus aren't responsible for the anti-muslim violence in India

If you bring up Gaza in a conversation about British Jews you are essentially conflating Israel and Jews.

The average Jew in Israel doesn't have a huge amount of choice over what their government does never mind a Jew in the UK, who might just be culturally Jewish. Its not their war and bringing it up in conversations about them is also anti semitic

The conversation wasn't about Israel and Gaza until you took it that way. It was about British Jews. You keep blaming other people for the way you have taken the conversation.