A Malaysian plane has been shot down in the Ukraine.

[WeAreEternal]

The flight mh17 from Amsterdam to kuala lumpor with 295 people on board, it was a boing 777.
It was shot down with a buk ground to air missile.
They say there are no survivors.

It's awful.

There is a route over Ukraine to be avoided, but apparently this plane wasn't on that route.

Oh.

'Why else would they delete the bragging comments earlier about shooting down a Ukrainian cargo plane?'

Let's wait for clarification over the "bragging" comments. It may not be what it seems. Let's see if the EU politicians bring up the "bragging" email as evidence or if it is suddenly dropped from the narrative.

Here - Russian site (in English) - it's quite clear that the airspace was/is closed

There's going to be lots of uncertainty and misinformation, but the one place I definitely wouldn't go looking for reliable information is a Russian media source.

Thanks all - so not closed airspace.

Newrepublic article is interesting.

They were discussing that apparently the Americans were concerned that the separatists had got their hands on some of these big missile trucks a while ago.

Depressing that the author thinks there can be no consequences - that there's little that can/will be done.

DH's uncle was supposed to have been on this plane, but was held up at work. Chilling.

It is depressing. Look what happened the last time a superpower enthusiastically armed a load of extremists in order to fan the flames of a civil war/insurrection.

What the hell is gong on.

So now they are reporting that there has been a massive power cut in Gaza City and Israel are launching a massive ground attack.

Is it just me or does this feel like déjà vu

When MH370 went missing it was at the same time Russia was claiming/invading Chimera, and today MH17 goes down and a few hours later a huge attack is launched on Gaza.
It just feels like an attempt at a huge distraction.

'They were discussing that apparently the Americans were concerned that the separatists had got their hands on some of these big missile trucks a while ago.'

Have they shown the evidence? Or is it a bit like the "Saddam yellowcake" evidence?

The world is now very dangerous with the flashpoints being Ukraine and the Middle East. Does Putin want all this?

The New Republic article is not a good analysis. But on one aspect, it is right. Putin has been backed into a corner and he will be squeezed even more as the tension is escalated. But it is not the rebels who backed him into the corner.

"There is no way that, a day after criticizing the recklessness of American foreign policy, his military shoots down a passenger plane. Rather, it seems that the rebels made a mistake that paints Putin into a corner. Putin hates corners, and when he's backed into one, he tends to lash out. He especially hates to do or say what is expected of him"

"what can the West do to punish them? What can it do to punish Russia for giving them these capabilities? What can it do to end the conflict? More sanctions? Putin's been blowing them off and they haven't altered his calculus all that much"

That is the question.

Sadly not a shortage of attacking and invading going on at the moment (eg Iraq, Syria). You could find something like that for any week you wanted.

Netanyhau has ordered a ground attack on Gaza. All eyes on MH17. Disgusting!

My ipad could tell me which flight number/destination/etc a plane is

There perhaps isn't any broadband in tiny rural Ukraine villages ...

'You could find something like that for any week you wanted'

I think that what we are witnessing now in the Middle East and with casting Russia as the enemy etc and the Ukrainian EU-backed coup are interlinked. We have not seen so open a proxy war before. It is now getting slowly closer to a hot war.

There's no doubt in my mind who is responsible for this but it will no doubt be spun to make others seem responsible.

My dp is a journalist specialising in the Russia Ukraine conflict and has been glued to his phone all afternoon. It's terrifying, this plus what is happening in Israel and Palestine right now. It feels like the end of the world is coming!

This terrible crash has diverted the world's attention from what the Israelis are up to in Gaza and seemingly justifies the opposition the West feels towards Russia's involvement in the Ukraine.

(Garlic, flight tracker apps use gps)

Btw, did you all see the picture of it taking off that some bloke tweeted, with the comment "just in case this one goes missing"? He's taken it down now.

I still think its a very odd coincidence that two MA flights have not reached their destination within 4 months. Am shocked that not even the most speculative news stations have put that together yet.

'I still think its a very odd coincidence that two MA flights have not reached their destination within 4 months. Am shocked that not even the most speculative news stations have put that together yet.'

Only the conspiracy sites and tin foil hatters will ask that question and try to answer it.

DieselSpillages, get your tin foil hat out for what Isis are all about also. Who funds them and why aren't they stopped and who is their main enemy - Syria and Iran.

From pprune

"Belgian and Dutch media reporting that "eye witnesses" have seen 2 other aircraft near MH17 at time of accident."

Also a bloke on twitter claims to be ukrainian ATC, and says the flight had two fighters escorting it (will grab link now)

mobile.twitter.com/spainbuca

Gosh Elizabeth - I suspect you may know more than you'd want to!

Re the conflicting info over airspace being closed, lower flight levels were closed, higher ones still open.

Who are the firefighters at the crash site?

Awful and scary! and I mean that - the ramifications of this are going to change everything...