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Oscar Pistorius Trial Part 6

997 replies

Roussette · 03/05/2014 17:18

here is Part 5 but we are ready (nearly) for a new one.

OP posts:
YNK · 08/05/2014 11:34

YY Louise watch the whole of Vermeulen again. His evidence and demonstration was very good.
I assert yet again, he did not conclude either way re stumps v p legs, despite cross by Roux.

LouiseBrooks · 08/05/2014 11:34

~"If OP really card about the Steenkams' feelings, he could have spared them the trial by pleading guilty to culpable homicide and showing remorse."

Hillwalker it's been pointed out that the State have to agree that he could plead guilty to CH. We don't know if they would have and I firmly believe they would not, they want the maximum sentence for the maximum crime.

RoadKillBunny · 08/05/2014 11:35

Seems we have ballistics next, could this finally be the defence starting to hit back? Have the deliberately left their strongest stuff until last so that the lastcevidencevthe judge and assessors hear is in strong favour if the defence, could it all just be a game of tactics?

Hillwalker · 08/05/2014 11:37

Good point, Louise.

member · 08/05/2014 11:37

Setting up exhibits...

LookingThroughTheFog · 08/05/2014 11:37

As far as I can tell, Roux caaled her simply to rebut Nel's question to OP; are you using emotion to avoid answering.

This was what he said when Nel objected.

Unfortunately, it gave Nel the opening to discuss remorse with someone qualified to discuss it, and the oportunity to hammer home the 'I shot Reeva by mistake' line.

RonaldMcDonald · 08/05/2014 11:39

This should be great, apparently a great witness

LookingThroughTheFog · 08/05/2014 11:44

And there we have it - the prosecution no longer dispute that Pistorius was on his stumps when firing. Just said just now in court - Nel did not object.

AnyaKnowIt · 08/05/2014 11:44

State has agreed that op was in his stumps

BonnieL · 08/05/2014 11:44

Fine, if you want to do that, but I think you need to accept that you're firmly in the 'Oscar is EVIL!!!' brigade, and accept that your posts may be discounted as being incredibly biased. Spot on looking

I don't think adding a load of exclamation marks to every outburst really helps to add weight to the speculation either.

I've been out having a life this morning so going to try and catch up now on the stuff I've missed.

BonnieL · 08/05/2014 11:45

State has agreed that op was on his stumps but I think I know someone who still won't agree with this...

member · 08/05/2014 11:46

A bit rambling with his C.V.

member · 08/05/2014 11:49

Lucky if we're going to get through his CV/credentials before breaking for lunch since we're only on 1977...

YNK · 08/05/2014 11:50

We know the state is not going to poen this to cross again. Nel is not stupid. He is not going to take the bait.
Vermulens evidence is already on record!
It does not conclude either way about the stumps!

LookingThroughTheFog · 08/05/2014 11:51

I suppose he doesn't want to be suddenly accused of being a geologist.

LouiseBrooks · 08/05/2014 11:51

State has agreed that op was in his stumps

Inded they have.

"Roux: I will now say that the state have now also agreed that the accused was in fact on his stumps
W: That is correct my lady."

Roussette · 08/05/2014 11:51

It seems to me as if the more the Defence tries to bring forward witnesses and defend OP, the worse it gets. The last witness about his mental state after the killing was just ridiculous. Who can tell whether a grown man is crying for himself and what might befell him, or crying for the death of someone he loved.

This ballistics expert might be better.

OP posts:
Roussette · 08/05/2014 11:53

Gosh nearly time for a new thread - I'll get it ready, as I have to go into work later.

OP posts:
LouiseBrooks · 08/05/2014 11:53

"it does not conclude either way about the stumps!"

Well the State appear to have publicly concluded that he was! (I can do exclamation marks too when required.)

LookingThroughTheFog · 08/05/2014 11:54

Ta muchly, Rousette.

Roussette · 08/05/2014 11:57

here it is.

What on earth is this ballstics blokey on about? He seems to be reading an autobiography about himself. He is bigging himself up too much!

OP posts:
AnyaKnowIt · 08/05/2014 11:57

LookingThroughTheFog Thu 08-May-14 11:51:22
I suppose he doesn't want to be suddenly accused of being a geologist.

Haha Grin

WhoDaresWins · 08/05/2014 11:58

rousette or if indeed he is crying for both

StackALee · 08/05/2014 11:59

I have been trying to put together an accurate timeline for calls made around this case but having trouble finding times for when Stander called the ambulance. Has this been shown anywhere (Were there logs from the emergency services?)

Also - here's a PDF link to the list of witnesses may have been posted before. Not all called obviously

StackALee · 08/05/2014 12:02

Just some info: I'll post this again at the start of the next thread.

Stander's Evidence: 5th May Session 1

I received a phone call around about 03.18 (Call Logs say was 03.19.03) from Mr Pistorius saying 'please please please come to my house, I shot Reeva, I thought she was a intruder, please come quick'

I walked out, opened the door and when I was walking out of the room my daughter came out of my room and she said she had just heard somebody call for help.

My daughter and I then decided to go to his house as quickly as possible. We left the house (Did they get dressed? how long did that take) ...

The front door was slightly open, there was a light. My daughter was in front of me, she pushed the door open and we saw Mr Pistorius coming down the stairs with Reeva in his arms.

When he reached the bottom of the stairs I think my daughter asked him to put the body down. He was really crying. He asked us to please assist him, to put Reeva in our car and take her to hospital.

We tried to calm Mr Pistorius down, he was broken, he was screaming, he was crying, he was praying. I spent some time trying to calm him down. I said to Oscar 'Mr pistorius I will go out and call the ambulance' While I was out trying to call the ambulance a gentleman came towards me, he introduced himself as Johan. I asked him the contact no. for the ambulance because I couldn't get hold of them. I then called... I was still speaking on the phone and Dr Stipp came back out...The ambulance arrived shortly after... they declared Reeva dead.

I asked Dr Stipp what he had heard... He said he had heard four shots, silence, screams and four shots again.

Stipp's Evidence:

I was awakened by three loud bangs, my wife asked me what was that? I said ‘I think it’s gunshots’… As I looked out (From the Balcony) I heard screaming, it sounded like a female and she screamed three or four times… I took my phone and I called security. [Nel interjects and asks how much time between the bangs and the screams ‘I few moments’]. I tried to ascertain where the screams were coming from… I noted that one of the houses in front, almost all the lights were on, The accused house was to the left of the house with the lights on and the bathroom light was on. I went back into my bedroom and I phoned Silver woods security. There was no answer, it rang a few times, so I called 10111. I got a funny dialing tone, while I was still busy on the phone I heard another three loud bangs. I thought whoever had shot the first time was starting to shoot again.

I eventually got through to our security and spoke to the guard, told him what happened and he said they will send someone when a duty manager arrives. During that time I must have been walking around the room and put my phone down, walked out onto the balcony again and that’s when I heard a man’s voice shouting three times ‘help help help’. I went back into the room and waited for security. They arrived a few minutes later I told them what I had heard (he was talking down to them from the balcony). Security left and drove towards the house. I went onto the other balcony and as I was there I noticed someone moving in the bathroom through the window from the right to the left. The light looked the same as before.

My wife and I then had a discussion about should I go to see what was going on. So I dressed (He DID get dressed) and I drove down to security to find out if it was safe to go to the house. I spoke to the guard at the guard house, he told me I could go and that Mr Stander was there and it was fine. I drove back, followed the crescent… I parked behind a car outside OP’s house, I did not know it was his house. I got out of the car, there was a man talking on a cell-phone who motioned me towards the front door. There was a lady standing in the door. I said ‘I am a doctor, can I help’ she said yes and showed me to the bottom of the stairs. I went nearer and I noticed a man on her left kneeling by her side with his left hand on her right groin and his right hand second and third fingers in her mouth. The first thing he said was ‘I shot her, I thought she was a burgler and I shot her’.

Next thing I did was try to assist her, to open her airway and look for signs of life. She had no pulse in her neck, no breathing, she was clenching down. All during that time there wasn’t any signs of life. It was obvious to me that she was mortally wounded.

During that time, while I was trying to ascertain if she was survivable Oscar was crying all the time, he prayed to go ‘please let her live’ he said he would dedicate his life to god if she stayed alive. I went outside and Mr Stander was outside, I asked him ‘is the ambulance on the way’ he said ‘no he hasn’t called the ambulance yet’ so I took my phone and I called (a particular hospital) who said I had to call A&I which Mr Stander then did (Netcare) he handed me the phone and I spoke to the dispatcher and described the nature of the injuries. I went back inside the house periodically to check how things were going, Oscar stayed by her side most of the time, I remember when I was outside one time I was talking to Mr Stander and I noticed Oscar was going upstairs and asked Mr Stander if he knew where the gun was. So I thought maybe he might hurt himself. Mr Stander said he didn’t know where the gun was. A few minutes later Oscar returned downstairs.

I was outside, talking to Mr Sander. At one stage I think his wife arrived, his daughter was also on the scene at that time – they were concerned about what had happened. The ambulance arrived a short while after that. We exchanged number and I went home.

Call logs for Oscar’s Phone:

Feb 14th

01.48.48 – GRPS on Oscar’s phone – 309 seconds – tower closest to Oscar’s (the remaining are all on the same tower as well)

03.15.51 – Call to security from Dr Stipp - 16 Seconds

03.16.15 – Call to security from Nhlengethwa – 0 seconds, not answered

03.16.36 – Call to security from Nhlengethwa – 44 seconds

03.18.45 – GRPS on Oscar’s phone – 75 Seconds

03.19.03 – Call from Oscar to Johan Stander – 24 seconds

03.20.02 – GRPS On Oscar’s phone – 79 Seconds

03.20.05 – Call from Oscar to 082911 (ambulance service) – 66 seconds

03.21.22 – GRPS on oscar’s phone – 61 seconds

03.21.33 – Call from Oscar to 6797 (baba, security) 9 seconds

03.21.47 – Call from Oscar to 121 Voicemail – 7 seconds

03.22.05 - Call from security Baba to Oscar - 12 seconds ‘everything is fine’

03.27 - Call to security from Dr Stipp -0 seconds not answered (mistaken re-dial?)

03.27 – Call from Stander to the emergency services (No extra info sorry)

03.55.02 – Call from Oscar’s phone to Justin Devaris – 123 Seconds

GRPS from Oscar’s phone for 83 seconds

04.01.38 – Call from Oscar’s Phone to Heinrich Pistorius – 54 Seconds

03.22.05 - Call from security Baba to Oscar - 12 seconds ‘everything is fine’