Oscar Pistorius Trial Part 6

[Roussette]

here is Part 5 but we are ready (nearly) for a new one.

Telegraph is working, as is Sky red button.

"I don't think YNK is saying the Standers would have behaved criminally"

Hillwalker she referred to them "leaving Aimee to clean up the crime scene". That's criminal.

YNK you say you wouldn't do it so why jump to the conclusion that the Standers - people about whom you know nothing at all - would?

YNK you said "I think they would have helped clean up the evidence and get the body away from the scene (to hospital) leaving Aimee to finish cleaning up. They certainly would not want police at the scene before they had tampered with the evidence!"

It is quite clear you are suggesting that the Standers and Aimee would have willingly become accomplices in the crime committed.

Onestep, I managed to get the Guardian working, but only streaming it through Internet Explorer. I usually watch via Chrome, and both Guardian and Telegraph were causing a Shockwave crash. I wonder if there's been an update.

Where is this coming from that OP didn't call an ambulance

The States evidence is that Netcare was his second call

And FFS some posters are maybe needing to catch up on their sleep

Hillwalker - I'm interested in the fact that the current witness seems to be saying that from the evidence she's seen, Reeva was asleep at some point during the evening. And also that she had done yoga. Surely we only have OP's word regarding the yoga, and what about the sleep..?

From the Guardian feed:

"There was 200ml of food in Steenkamp's stomach after death, says Nel (Lundgren was not aware of this measurement). That means, if that represents 10% of what she'd eaten some hours earlier, as Lundgren posited, she must have eaten a meal of 2 litres of food, he suggests.

That's a lot of food, Lundgren concedes.

If Steenkamp had eaten eight hours before she died – as the defence says – she would have had to have eaten 4 litres of food, Nel says. It's not probable, he argues."

Good grief Nel is good.

Unfortunately, I can't find a way to copy the web address from the Guardian.

OK, what I've gleaned so far is that they're talking about stomach contents. They all agree that it's not an exact science, and there are variables - type of food etc.

She said it might have been 6 hours. However she agrees with the fact that

Sorry, I'll finish that thought in a second but this is hugely relevant. This witness has just said that if there had been a row, if the person was anxiety and fearful, that will delay gastric emptying. She agrees - patients who are anxious, it delays.

And back to the first point - there was 200mls of contents left in the stomach. For Reeva to have eaten when this witness says, she would have to have consumed 2 ltrs of food at that meal.

She did not know the stomach contents had been measured.

Yes, voice, this witness is assuming that the yoga and sleep happened but we only have OP's word

Louise, the experts were unable to prove (or indeed disprove) he was ever on stumps!

Godot got there first.

(I willingly admit I need to catch up on sleep. I had a rotten night, and will sleep later.)

3m ago
10:10
Lundgren mentioned earlier than anxiety or fear can delay gastric emptying.

Nel: If the deceased was involved in a long argument before death that made her anxious, that would affect gastric emptying?

Lundgren: It could.

This feed is working after trying others.

Yes, Nel is good but Lundgren is quite measured in her responses and keeps using the word 'speculative' in reply to Nel.

Has the sky red button got a channel number? Mine doesn't seem to work

Looking thanks I've managed to get it via the telegraph! and no doubt now they will adjourn for the day!

YNK IIRC - and a couple of other people here have the same opinion - it was agreed that it was more likely than not that he was on his stumps at the time of the shooting. (There was some dispute as to whether or not he had his stumps on when he used the bat.)

I really fail to understand why you think that your opinion is better than theirs when they are experts and have actually examined the door. Or have you nipped over to SA recently and looked at it for yourself?

This witness referring to Reeva sleeping and doing yoga is surely inadmissable, isn't it, as she is repeating what OP said?

FFS I was asked to speculate. From what I have said before you know I believe both Carice and Aimee tampered and the evidence from Carices own testimony supports this.
We don't know who spirited the phone away!
OP called netcare, but we cannot confirm they told him to get her to hospital in the car, thus refusing an ambulance (this is HIGHLY unlikely if he gave a sound account of her injuries).
No ambulance was called until Dr Stipp told Stander to at 8.27 when she was dead.
Stander did not have the number meaning he didn't call them before that!

There's a live feed on the BBC website too works fine for me, am using Chrome.

Correct, as i understand it Hillwalker (putative consistent statement).
It will be allowed though if Nel does cross on it.

That is a very good point YNK why would he be advised to put reeva in a car and take her to the hospital rather than sending an ambulance ?

If there are so many 'medical outliers' whose stomach empties slowly, then there would be many, many more deaths during medical procedures due to gastric aspiration!
Doctors just don't take those sort of gambles with peoples lives every day!

I'm watching a live feed via the Sky website, it is titled live transcript so isn't immediately obvious news.sky.com/story/1257473/oscar-pistorius-trial-live-court-transcript

another adjournment?

As far as phones being spirited away or no ambulance called etc, I honestly think unless Nel picks up on this sort of thing in a big way, it must be fairly irrelevant because he is like a bloodhound sniffing out inconsistencies