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News

Oscar Pistorius Trial Part 6

997 replies

Roussette · 03/05/2014 17:18

here is Part 5 but we are ready (nearly) for a new one.

OP posts:
member · 08/05/2014 10:58

Gah!, lost the feed!

Surely this witnesses reports would have been better dealt with at the sentencing arguments stage?

Roussette · 08/05/2014 10:59

I just wonder what the point is of this witness. Yes, he is obviously heartbroken/upset/suffering and will co-operate with a psychologist or whatever conditions are set, but surely this will bring nothing to the trial. The witness is talking of his vomiting and crying at different times but it's who he is crying for that matters isn't it...

OP posts:
LookingThroughTheFog · 08/05/2014 11:02

I did too, Member, but was OK on refresh.

I honestly think this witness was a bad idea.

I'm interested to see how it goes down though.

On the 15th, he missed Reeva so much.

OneStepCloser · 08/05/2014 11:03

I agree Rousette I'm not seeing the point of this witness.

LookingThroughTheFog · 08/05/2014 11:04

This is uncomfortable hearing.

The witness says 'I said I accidentally shot Reeva'.

That now gives Nel the opportunity to point out that this is not his defence in court.

I'm not quite clear on the legal defence though.

AnyaKnowIt · 08/05/2014 11:10

Still can't get red button to work, or any of the live feeds

member · 08/05/2014 11:11

Agree Looking

OneStepCloser · 08/05/2014 11:13

I've managed to get it via the Telegraph Anya not great quality though.

AnyaKnowIt · 08/05/2014 11:14

Hasn't op got two defences on the go? First the intruder then seconds the gun somehow fired in his hands?

member · 08/05/2014 11:15

In the immediate aftermath trauma would be expected; how can observing that be used to counteract the impression that he turned on emotion at will during the court case?

AnyaKnowIt · 08/05/2014 11:15

Can't click on the play button on the telegraph, BBC is just showing a black screen and my red button doesn't work.

YNK · 08/05/2014 11:15

Yes Louise, I think you need to watch Vermeulens demonstrations again.
Stumps v P legs....NOT agreed!
......by anyone but OP

LookingThroughTheFog · 08/05/2014 11:15

Nel is taking the opportunity to discuss remorse. In her experience, she would be looking for someone to say 'I am sorry for what I did' as remorse starts with taking responsibility for what you have done.

Oscar did not do that on the 15th.

She's now saying it wasn't her role - she was offering emotional support.

What Nel's doing is pointing out that all the sadness comes from his emotions 'I miss her' relating to his loss.

Nel repeats that he never said 'I'm sorry, I shouldn't have done it.' She agrees.

I would have thought that that would be straight forwards though; he's not admitted it at all at any point. His defence seems to be that it wasn't his fault.

AnyaKnowIt · 08/05/2014 11:17

Yy looking

member · 08/05/2014 11:18

Adjournment for 10 mins for Nel to check something.Anya, did you try

news.sky.com/story/1257473/oscar-pistorius-trial-live-court-transcript

YNK · 08/05/2014 11:18

Yes anya, she is testifying he said "accident", this blows his defense apart yet again!

I have to go out shortly and I think I'm going to miss this excellent ballistics guy!
Gutted!

MajesticWhine · 08/05/2014 11:19

If she said he was sorry, then Nel can use that to say he felt guilty because it was his fault. If he is not sorry, then he looks unremorseful. So OP can't win that one either way. Clever questioning.

AnyaKnowIt · 08/05/2014 11:21

Ive got a picture showing on that link member

Thank you!

Hillwalker · 08/05/2014 11:22

Agree member. What she observed over a year ago is not relevant to his emotional outbursts during the trial.

LouiseBrooks · 08/05/2014 11:26

"Yes Louise, I think you need to watch Vermeulens demonstrations again.
Stumps v P legs....NOT agreed! ......by anyone but OP"

We've been through this before, I seem to recall. I am referring to what the experts said, not what the state case is, and I quote

"Roux: Was he on his stumps or on his prosthesis, when he fired the shots?
Vermeulen: I have it that the measurements are the same as when he is on his stumps."

In order words, he was on his stumps.

I can't look for the footage as I can't play sound in the office. I am supposed to be working

Hillwalker · 08/05/2014 11:26

If OP really card about the Steenkams' feelings, he could have spared them the trial by pleading guilty to culpable homicide and showing remorse.

LookingThroughTheFog · 08/05/2014 11:27

While we're on a ten minute break, I'm going to bore you with my thoughts on this witness.

I think she was called (or Roux thought it would be a good idea to put her on stand) today, because of the Stander's evidence and the evidence of the neighbours. They all talked about Oscar's upset, and how they felt (and I shorten dramatically here) that it must have been an accident because look how sad he is.

This witness is also talking about how upset he was, and she's independent. So it backs up their upset story.

I think that's why she's here.

However - this thing about remorse is very interesting. From the beginning, my feeling is that he doesn't seem capable of accepting responsibility at all.

It's almost child-like in his reactions. He reminds me of my son who broke his favourite stick (boys and sticks) by testing to see how far it would bend. His reaction was instantly how sad he was that he no longer had the stick. It's only been recently that he's started to go to the more adult reaction of 'I did this; I am sorry that I did this.' Yes, he still feels sadness about the loss, but he also feels sadness that he was responsible for the thing that happened. That he can't hide behind anything else or throw blame out externally.

Oscar seems almost incapable of doing that.

I don't know what this points at, if anything.

Hillwalker · 08/05/2014 11:27

Cared not card

RonaldMcDonald · 08/05/2014 11:30

I can see no reason for calling that witness

He showed no remorse but was very upset.

She was there for emotional support and to show him empathy. She did.
Other than that what can she offer to the court?

RoadKillBunny · 08/05/2014 11:31

I don't know what the defence where thinking on this one!
You have somebody who read something in the papers out if context with the detail of what actually happened in court and is compelled to come forward to say the OP isn't using his emotions to manipulate based on her observations 15 months ago in the first days and weeks after the event.
What you end up with is a pointless witness that adds nothing, you can murder a person and regret it within seconds.
The witness has added nothing to the defence apart from making them look a little desperate and if anything lends a tiny bit if strength to the States case.
The gastric emptying expert had a similar result.

Surely the defence can do more, the States case is far from water proof but every day the defence has been arguing the States case has become a little stronger.
This is surely the most confusing ass backwards case in history!

Will talk more later and look closer at the evidence but right now my house work calls, at least I can listen while I get on although the live feed has been having problems at its root in the courthouse today so is effecting all the live feed providers.