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Oscar Pistorius Trial Part 6

997 replies

Roussette · 03/05/2014 17:18

here is Part 5 but we are ready (nearly) for a new one.

OP posts:
member · 05/05/2014 13:54

Thanks for the Guardian summary Rousette

How did Aimee come to be at OP's house? Witnesses remembering phone call to Carl, no mention of Aimee except suddenly there packing a bag for OP?

YNK · 05/05/2014 14:04

Packing a bag for OP and spiriting away RS's handbag!
For June, who AO didn't know didn't inform and had no contact number for!

AmIthatSpringy · 05/05/2014 14:07

member. Did they say how much time had passed before Aimee arrived though. I got the impression it was a good bit later so presumed that her brother Carl would have informed her of what had happened

LouiseBrooks · 05/05/2014 14:13

"I believe Franks quarters were beside a large water feature, which would stop him hearing anything."

Oh I did hear that about someone, didn't realise it was Frank. Must be like Niagara Falls - not what we'd call a "water feature"

YNK · 05/05/2014 14:24

It is really jarring for us to get our heads around the fact that even in post apartheid SA there is a subculture of black people who move around unacknowledged, unobtrusively assisting rich white people in living their lives.

RonaldMcDonald · 05/05/2014 14:27

We have just been discussing it at home.
I think that staff would find it hard to get involved. The relationship can IME become genuinely very close and it is not only a source of employment but also where they live.
I'd be surprised if he heard anything at all.

AmIthatSpringy · 05/05/2014 14:29

louise. There are photos of the "water feature" Am at work but will look when I get home. It's not like Niagara FallsSmile Unless there is another huge one hidden on all the photos of the house then I wouldn't have thought it would have drowned out arguing, screaming, etc

RonaldMcDonald · 05/05/2014 14:30

Sometimes rich black people too. Household help is not purely for white families...that seems to be the gift of post apartheid SA

I understand what you mean but it is the norm for very many families from 'ordinary' to rich. As usual wealth is always relative.

I am not judging any of this or OP for his staff.

YNK · 05/05/2014 14:31

Op made a big point in his testimony that when he went to get Reeva's ID, he did not go into the handbag!
Maybe I'm just reacting to my feelings for June. I know if it was my daughter I would be outraged by AO's bloody cheek! Had she even met Reeva?

I'm wondering too at the assessor clarifying that Reeva was used to switching on/off the alarm when OP said he didn't know if RS could switch it off. Heck she arrived before him that very night and had stayed there on her own without him before!

Nerf · 05/05/2014 14:34

I really don't see the handbag as anything other than trying to do the right thing. In all the chaos, blood, police, strangers the two women have consideration as to what to do with the handbag. By taking that on, they probably thought it would be safe.

bobblewobble · 05/05/2014 14:43

I have not had time to watch today's trial but I have read sky's transcript. I think its was Viljoen asked about taking a watch? Has that got anything to do with the stolen watch?

YNK · 05/05/2014 14:53

Surely it constituted evidence that should have remained in police possession, though?
There could even have been a diary in there? The family also took one of OP's phones.
The police informed June the following day of her daughters horrific death. Why would they want to say, "oh btw, her killers sister took her handbag away! You don't know her and she didn't know RS, but I'm sure she will get in touch!"
Sorry a handbag is a really personal possession!
I think that is really sloppy police work.

RonaldMcDonald · 05/05/2014 14:57

I thought that I'd maybe take her bag for safe keeping and to keep it private for her mum
I wonder how they got it to her mum?
I didn't think that was damning

YNK · 05/05/2014 14:57

Bubble,Clarice was with AO when she went to pack a bag for OP. She took a watch with her for him,
Nothing to do with the 'stolen' one afaik.
I have my own doubts about the watch anyway, because despite a search of all the police personnel and their cars, it has never been recovered.

AmIthatSpringy · 05/05/2014 14:58

Thank you Ronald that clarifies a bit. Frankie being there when the standees arrived means he was alerted somehow. I wonder ho

StackALee · 05/05/2014 15:02

By handbag do they mean overnight bag?

YNK · 05/05/2014 15:04

Sorry it's Carice.
I have no idea Ronald but I do know they saw each other for the first time in the court.

YNK · 05/05/2014 15:04

No not the holdall.

Hillwalker · 05/05/2014 15:15

I was astonished to learn today that OP's domestic servant was in the house at the time of the murder. I remember reading an interview with OP in which he was mentioned but I assumed he wasn't there on Feb 13 2013 but he was. So he heard nothing and the dogs didn't bark. Hmmm.

Hillwalker · 05/05/2014 15:16

Sorry. Just realised Frankie already discussed.

LookingThroughTheFog · 05/05/2014 15:18

I don't read much into the handbag thing either, other than the fact that they and the police made a mistake.

From their point of view, they have been informed of/witnessed, a hideous tragedy. They had no reason to believe that Oscar killed Reeva through anything other than an awful accident. I can imagine two reasonably young and inexperienced people thinking that it's the least they can do - to return this very personal item to a grieving woman.

I'm not prepared to leap and say that they removed it for any untoward purpose. Yes, they shouldn't have taken it, but that doesn't paint them as being some part of a conspiracy.

Don't get me wrong, when I first heard it, my reaction was 'they did what?' but in an 'Oh dear, that's not good!' way, rather than an 'I wonder why' way.

I'm currently transcribing the first session. Man his plea explanation is long!

AmIthatSpringy · 05/05/2014 15:28

A cursory look at Reeva's twitter account would show that not only did she know Aimee, but had also spent time with her

RonaldMcDonald · 05/05/2014 15:32

The paramedics asked OP for Ms Steenkamp's ID when they pronounced her dead. They apparently arrived at the house, worked on her for a while ( I believe she was dead but it is common to show effort )

Was Stipp there at this stage? Important as otherwise he would never have been able to mention OP going upstairs alone and his concern re the gun

I thought that Ms Stander was weak in the area around OP going upstairs alone
I think she amended his two trips upstairs into one trip. I'm unsure if that is down to her memory and shock

member · 05/05/2014 15:33

Yes, no time frame was mentioned re Aimee Pistorius arriving; just seemed slightly incongruous that there was so much talk of phone calls/who arrived when & what they said but that the testimony just segued into AP helped pack a bag for OP.

Barry Bateman has tweeted "the sum of Frank Chiziweni’s statement to the police was - I saw nothing. I heard nothing. I know nothing. BB"

Hillwalker · 05/05/2014 15:57

I wonder how much Frank was paid.