How much does University Choice Matter for Legal Career?

[Femusia]

If you work in top law firms (Magic Circle, US firms, and others) in the UK or top barristers chambers or are familiar with the legal profession, to what extent would you say the University you go to matters to secure a training contract or pupillage and to bolster your career?

Apparently, there’s been efforts to introduce university-blind admissions among some firms, but the vast majority of successful students are out of Oxbridge and other Russel Group universities?

How do the other Russel Group universities fare compared to Oxbridge? I suppose the top London universities are highly regarded, but does anyone know how Bristol/Birmingham/Manchester/Leeds are regarded?

One thing I found was that universities like Manchester and Bristol admitted up to 400 students as undergraduates while Oxbridge and UCL admitted up to 250. Is it that big of a deal or not?

My knowledge is a bit out of date but when I was working in a magic circle firm a top university was an expectation. Oxbridge, UCL, LSE, Durham, Edinburgh, Imperial etc

My son made around 100 applications to help get his training contract. Only one was uni blind and he wasn't allowed to mention his uni in the application answers other than the initial form.

At most of his assessment centres he said the candidates there were from Oxbridge, UCL, Warwick, Bristol, Durham and Leeds. He said it tended to be people from similar unis on his PGDL and now his SQE (both of which sponsored by his firm).

Remember too that around half of the trainees and solicitors/barristers are non law graduates too.

They may be uni blind but a graduate in history from cambridge will have written at least 72 essays and will have had 72 one to one supervisions with their tutor debating their weekly essay. That must have an impact on how the graduate performs in the sorts of assessment centres law firms hold to invite people on vac schemes.

I mention history as that’s a subject I’m familiar with but equally it will be true for other subjects eg law and others that lead to a conversion course.

A lot tbh. You would have to be exceptional to be accepted at my firm without coming from Oxbridge or Kings College London.

Is Manchester considered a top university for law or not?

Bristol is at No 10 in the Times best unis list - my DD graduated in the summer with her LLB and it was a great experience with a lot of fantastic opportunities.

LSE ranked best Russell Group and Cambridge best for Law overall.

I think a lot will depend on the type of law someone wants to go into, if they already have an idea.

My DD wants to be a human rights or criminal barrister but have found most places are very heavily leaning towards corporate law.

That's because most criminal and human rights lawyers earn peanuts in comparison to corporate lawyers 😬

This is another useful link:

https://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/league-tables/rankings/law

Rates Manchester as #23 but again, people will want different things. One of my DDs main criteria was graduate employment stats.

Yes it really matters if you're going for a top firm

I know a few barristers/ solicitors in top City firms. They went to Durham, York, Bristol. None did an undergraduate law degree, though.

I know! Unfortunately for DD.

She did consider doing a corporate for a bit to make some money then changing direction but after schemes with two Magic Circles firms and the first year of her degree course decided she'd die of boredom before she got that far!

Rather strange that Bath us on this listing though. They don't offer an LLB.

In fairness, it is possible to make money in criminal law, just not Legal Aid criminal law. If she goes down the "quasi-crime" White Collar route and applies to firms like Peters & Peters or Hogan Lovells or the small boutique firms like Corker Binning (or any City firm really) that deal with ultra-high-networth individuals and asset tracing, she will make just as much money as if she was in corporate 👍

Just don't let her get into Legal Aid!

She's a strong willed young woman...her main concern about legal aid is having to defend people she thinks are guilty...although having done a couple of crime based mini pupillages she seems to have wrapped her head around that.

To be quite honest I largely stay out of it...she's got at least a couple of years before she needs to make a choice (has just started a Masters) but will go in whatever direction she wants regardless of my input!

Or work in the City when young to get some money behind you to get a house deposit then leave and switch over later in life. I have found law a pretty flexible profession

I went out with a criminal barrister for a while according to him pretty much all his clients were guilty the CPS won’t bother prosecuting otherwise. Occasionally someone wasn’t but it’s pretty rare.

Oxbridge, Russell Group, Top London unis - if you’re a white middle class male you might get away with Keele or Leicester. Otherwise in reality you need to go to on of the top unis.

I went to Leeds uni and ended up working at an elite US firm. Training contract was at a well known international firm and then I moved to the US firm on qualification. I think it matters to an extent but also important to have the right “coaching” to know how to do well at assessment centres and in applications. This can come through law firm insight days, vacation schemes and talking to current trainees / NQs.

@WyrdHagTheres absolutely loads of criminal barrister sets in the West country and London! Human rights is much more sought after but she should have done mini pupillages by now and done her research in terms of where to apply for mini pupillages and pupilage. Most sets are not commercial at all. Plus, is she doing the barristers training course? Has she got a scholarship? Getting to be a criminal barrister is much easier than commercial.

@Femusia My DD is a barrister at a Band 1 chambers. 10 years call so not that recent now. However some things don’t change. Oxbridge supply around 40% of barristers. A very high proportion have firsts in their undergrad degrees.- it’s risen considerably. The next 50% of barristers in London are RG but there’s a pecking order. The LNAT universities hold sway at the London bar. So Durham, Bristol, Nottingham, LSE, Kings, UCL and to a much lesser extent, Glasgow. There’s certainly many from Exeter, Warwick and Birmingham as well but fewer from northern RG unis. Northern grads are more likely to supply the northern circuit. Manchester is top dog for Manchester for example. So yes, it’s a very good choice.

In many ways an exceptional candidate will get pupillage but some sets only take Oxbridge. For the London bar there are obvious preferences and LNAT unis are a good call. The northern circuit does not see many Oxbrudge grads. The number of non law degree barristers is reducing but so much matters beyond uni attended and if dc don’t do law, the degree should be academic. History, MFLs and English are good ones.

The size of law school doesn’t really matter in my view. LNAT and a vibrant law school does. Plus surrounding yourself with other undergrads who are ambitious really matters. There are deadlines for mini pupillages, scholarships and course application dates which means you need to keep track of everything.

I know next to nothing about magic circle but DDs friends who jumped that hurdle are all Oxbridge!

@WyrdHag I see she’s done two mini pulillages. She should know then that she doesn’t get to pick and choose clients. The barristers take the cases they are given via the “cab rank” system. Can I just let you know she’s not got 2 years. Most chambers start you a year after appointing you. However I’m assuming the masters is 1 year and the bar school another year. She needs to check pupilage application dates asap and what about scholarship awards from the inns of courts. They are valuable (£) and invaluable on the cv. She needs to acquaint herself with the Bands of chambers and do far more mini pupillages to get noticed. My DD did 10.

She's very much on the ball and has all this in hand.

As I've said, I don't involve myself in the minutiae as she's a competent young adult.

I admire your hands off approach but if I were her mother I’d be doing everything I could to encourage her away from legal aid work in criminal. It’s a terrible quality of life.

As someone has said up thread white collar work in a firm would vastly preferable. I did that as a junior acting on behalf of financial institutions.

Not at all - I have hired so many people into top legal roles - it’s honestly how they come across in interview

Also corporate work isn’t necessarily boring. Closing an international deal gives a real buzz! And the money is brilliant. Hated criminal work you spend your life with really horrible people who are often thick as well as cruel. Sounds obvious but the reality of criminal work is really not glamorous or even particularly interesting.

I got into a Magic Circle from a red brick uni with a 2.1. But had training in a quirky area of law that was booming and my face fitted apparently. There was me and a girl from Liverpool uni but everyone else was Oxbridge Harvard or Yale. That was years ago though,