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How much does University Choice Matter for Legal Career?

141 replies

Femusia · 21/09/2026 18:37

If you work in top law firms (Magic Circle, US firms, and others) in the UK or top barristers chambers or are familiar with the legal profession, to what extent would you say the University you go to matters to secure a training contract or pupillage and to bolster your career?

Apparently, there’s been efforts to introduce university-blind admissions among some firms, but the vast majority of successful students are out of Oxbridge and other Russel Group universities?

How do the other Russel Group universities fare compared to Oxbridge? I suppose the top London universities are highly regarded, but does anyone know how Bristol/Birmingham/Manchester/Leeds are regarded?

One thing I found was that universities like Manchester and Bristol admitted up to 400 students as undergraduates while Oxbridge and UCL admitted up to 250. Is it that big of a deal or not?

OP posts:
Grain80 · 11/10/2026 22:18

MeetMeOnTheCorner · 11/10/2026 19:36

@Grain80 The big issue for barristers is how chambers are organised. Barristers are self employed. This means that many network with solicitors to get work. They have to build up a portfolio of work and get ranked. Up to 22.5% of their earnings are paid to chambers to run the chambers. People that fit in and can earn decent money because they have ability and confidence are very much who they will choose. Young people from less advantaged backgrounds can of course have all those attributes too but no confidence, not making the best of your opportunities by not going to Oxford, or if chambers thinks you won’t make money, are also red flags. These are commercial enterprises and not charities. There are other ways to be a barrister at the employed bar and its horses for courses.

@MeetMeOnTheCornerI’m genuinely quite taken aback by the suggestion that not going to Oxford amounts to failing to make the best of one’s opportunities.
And I think your reference to people who “fit in” rather illustrates the point I’ve been making throughout this discussion.
I’m not questioning the commercial realities of the Bar, nor suggesting chambers should operate as charities. I’m questioning the assumptions we make about ability, confidence and potential, and how those assumptions can perpetuate the very inequalities we’re discussing.

Grain80 · 11/10/2026 22:28

returntomotherland · 11/10/2026 21:55

Please do set out how you suggest we should account for the individual disadvantages affecting each of our hundreds of applicants, bearing in mind that (i) the median applicant is 27 years old and (ii) the essence of the job they are interviewing for is being able to present submissions with confidence?

@returntomotherland

I’ve spoken this into AI for speed, but these are all my own words and experiences.
I think that’s a fair question, and I wouldn’t pretend there’s a straightforward answer, particularly when you’re assessing hundreds of applicants.
I’ve interviewed hundreds of lawyers over the course of my career, albeit for commercial organisations rather than the Bar, and one thing I’ve learnt is that there are nuances to every candidate.
And perhaps my own experience illustrates what I’m trying to say.
I didn’t lack confidence growing up. Quite the opposite, actually. I had a certain street-level confidence. I was willing to take risks, navigate unfamiliar situations and do things that some of my university friends, despite their considerably more privileged backgrounds, wouldn’t have contemplated. In many ways, I was older than my years.
But that confidence didn’t necessarily translate into the sort of confidence that was recognised or rewarded in professional interviews.
I remember being asked by a partner at an interview what my best day out had been. I said Alton Towers. And I still slightly cringe remembering that, not because there’s anything wrong with Alton Towers, but because at that point in my life, it genuinely was a big day out for my family.
We didn’t have the money to travel. Meanwhile, I was at university with people who went skiing and on safari every year and had grown up with parents who were doctors, lawyers, business people - old money not illiterate basically. Their experiences, conversations and reference points were entirely different from mine.
I don’t think I was any less capable than those friends. But looking back, I don’t think I had the ability at that stage of my life to articulate or present my capabilities in a way that did them justice.
And I think there’s something quite telling about the fact that I still cringe at that Alton Towers answer more than 25 years later. It was an entirely authentic answer, reflective of what was a wonderful experience for my family. Yet somehow, even now, part of me judges it against the experiences I subsequently came to regard as more impressive or culturally acceptable.
I suppose that’s what I mean by social and cultural capital. It’s not simply about having more opportunities or experiences. It’s also about learning which parts of yourself to present, how to articulate your experiences and what might resonate with the person sitting opposite you.
And I wonder how often we mistake that familiarity for ability.
I’ve since spent years interviewing lawyers, and I know how differently people can present at interview compared with the capabilities they demonstrate in practice.
I appreciate that advocacy requires confidence, and I’m certainly not suggesting chambers should overlook that. But confidence isn’t one-dimensional, and nor is it necessarily fixed.
So perhaps the question isn’t how you account for every individual’s disadvantage, but how you distinguish between the confidence someone has developed through familiarity with particular environments and the underlying qualities that might make them an exceptional advocate.
I don’t have a perfect answer to that. But I do think it’s worth asking.

MeetMeOnTheCorner · 11/10/2026 23:00

@Grain80 All the Inns of courts give scholarships and before anyone is interviewed in a chambers, they will have had interviews for scholarships and applied for scholarships at the bar schools. Some of these are for advocacy skills. There’s the cvs dc come with - are they recognised by others as being exceptional before they even apply for pupillage? There’s a lot of info already known about applicants and chambers do know how to spot the best.

MeetMeOnTheCorner · 11/10/2026 23:17

@Grain80Why should chambers have a pupil they really don’t think has their values or will fit in? They are collectives, not employers. They want the best fit so they go forward expecting a basic understanding by applicants of values held by senior barristers and chambers. Chambers have very differing views on this, and applicants can check this out.
Some chambers just don’t have many Oxbridge at all! If dc didn’t go, apply to these. Or go regional and not London. The regions are very different in terms of Oxbridge %. It’s low.

The Bar is very very competitive. Why should chambers look at someone who said they didn’t want the best universities? What does that say about that person? That, with all the extra money Oxbridge gives poor students which has been passed up, and the clear knowledge it gives an advantage, it demonstrates the applicant didn’t have the necessary attributes to be one of the 70% plus from state schools who went there. Why? What then sells them to chambers? It’s not likely to show commitment and deeper understanding of what personal qualities are needed.

Not getting in is normal as 90% don’t but turning it down would be poor and I don’t care who dc is and what their background is. The best people understand what’s needed and do it and do not make excuses. Harsh but true. The person from a similar background who did go would be more likely to be succesful. Plus they need scholarships - see previous post. Stupid to run away from these too. It’s how the system works.

returntomotherland · 11/10/2026 23:42

@MeetMeOnTheCorner Picking pupils by reference to whether a pupil has the “values” of senior barristers in chambers (??) or whether he or she “fits in” is directly contrary to the equality and diversity training mandated by our regulator. You do not and cannot speak on behalf of the Bar just because you are related to a barrister.

Grain80 · 12/10/2026 07:22

@Femusia(for completeness spoken into AI all my words). @Femusia, for fear of totally derailing your thread, I just wanted to add something to my earlier comment.
Friends and fellow alumni from my year alone include two KCs (both appointed last year), several partners at law firms ranging from regional practices to US and Magic Circle firms, and GCs working in everything from start-ups to FTSE companies and private offices of wealthy individuals.
So no, attending a Russell Group university certainly hasn’t held them back. And I don’t believe not going to Oxbridge was what disadvantaged me either.
My discussion with other posters has really been about the importance of social and cultural capital, and how that shapes the opportunities available to us and our ability to make the most of them.
I don’t believe I was innately any less intelligent than my peers, arguably quite the opposite in some cases, but I certainly lacked much of the cultural capital they arrived at university with. And I think that made a difference, particularly when it came to navigating the early stages of a legal career.
Nowadays, with apprenticeships and the SQE route, there are more pathways into the profession, which I think is a positive development. I know several foreign-qualified lawyers who’ve qualified in England through the SQE route, many of whom have subsequently moved in-house.
I’m also still in contact with some of the people I interviewed alongside at Oxford who didn’t get in. They went on to universities including LSE, Manchester and Birmingham, and have all been very successful in their respective careers.
Of course, I’m considerably older now, and my perspective is also shaped by the fact that I speak to lawyers across the profession on a daily basis.

Ultimately, I really wouldn’t worry that not attending Oxbridge will somehow limit your daughter’s career.

There are some excellent law schools outside Oxford and Cambridge, and I’d encourage you to choose a strong university where you feel your daughter will thrive.

Oxbridge is one route to a successful legal career, but it certainly isn’t the only one. A bit part of all this is the interest you’re showing, my parents loved me but had not entered further education (in fact their education didn’t surpass primary in their country). But what also massively pushed me was their values and the importance they placed on education. There were many areas they could not help but they did their best with the means they had, we can’t all come from an equal footing (sadly).

Mumofboys2006 · 12/10/2026 07:30

Pls don’t ask anyone on mumsnet. I’m a trained city lawyer but qualified a long time ago! Trying to get into the law is brutal now. Russell Group is a prerequisite as is a first.

Mumofboys2006 · 12/10/2026 07:34

Grain80 · 11/10/2026 19:40

@Femusia(please note I had a lot to say to spoke this into AI for the grammar etc but it’s all my words) I actually left law relatively early on, but I don’t think not going to Oxbridge disadvantaged me. Quite the opposite, really. Attending a Russell Group university gave me access to people, opportunities and networks that I simply wouldn’t have encountered growing up in a very deprived borough, attending a local comprehensive and coming from a working-class immigrant family.
I think I recognised quite early on at university that I needed to build those networks, although I’m not entirely sure how I knew that at the time. I was quite deliberate about the people I got to know and the friendships I developed. I also got involved in sport, despite not being particularly good at it, partly because it opened up another social circle.
But I was also working throughout university because I had to, and I think that inevitably came at a cost. Time spent working was time I couldn’t spend studying, socialising or getting involved in the sorts of activities that other students could.
I remember arriving at university and immediately recognising how different my background was from so many of my peers. My accent was different, my clothes were different, and there was an entire world of experiences and social connections that I simply hadn’t been exposed to.
And I think those differences became particularly apparent when it came to training contract applications and interviews.
Hand on heart, I don’t think I was any less intellectually capable than many of my peers who went on to secure training contracts at leading firms. But I certainly didn’t have the same confidence, polish, life experiences or understanding of how to present myself. Nor did I have the family connections or guidance that some of them could draw upon.
Looking back, I can see how differently equipped we were, even though we had attended the same university and received the same education.
And that’s perhaps the distinction I’m trying to make. The university itself wasn’t the disadvantage. If anything, it was one of the greatest opportunities I’d had.
I was taught by exceptionally able academics, including Oxbridge graduates, and received an intellectually rigorous education. Friends from university went on to become partners at leading City firms and general counsel at FTSE 250 companies. Clearly, attending a Russell Group university didn’t prevent them from reaching the very top of the profession.
But many of them also had advantages beyond their academic qualifications that I simply didn’t have.
Interestingly, I now work in a commercial role within the legal sector, speaking regularly with partners, general counsel and senior legal professionals across organisations ranging from FTSE 100 companies to startups. I’ve built a broad network across the profession, including the Bar, but it’s something I’ve had to cultivate over many years.
So no, I don’t think Oxbridge was the missing piece for me. I think it was the social and cultural capital that others arrived at university already possessing, and which I had to spend much of my early adult life learning to develop.
And perhaps that’s what gets lost in these discussions. Two people can attend the same excellent university, receive the same education and be equally intellectually capable, yet leave with very different opportunities because of everything else they bring with them.

This is probably the most genuine answer here.

MeetMeOnTheCorner · 12/10/2026 08:41

@Mumofboys2006 Depends whether you know much about law or want a personal story. Lots of people can succeed against the odds, but dc need to understand the best routes to take and not rely on their back story.

quequerido · 12/10/2026 09:39

MeetMeOnTheCorner · 12/10/2026 08:41

@Mumofboys2006 Depends whether you know much about law or want a personal story. Lots of people can succeed against the odds, but dc need to understand the best routes to take and not rely on their back story.

I totally agree. My 2 eldest are or where at RG universities and my youngest has the GCSE grades whereby I’m certain he will also take that route. He wants to be a lawyer

I’m acutely aware that even though he’s going to find it hard to get a training contract he has a massive leg up in terms of chances against someone with similar academics. We are a wider family of lawyers both in house and as senior partners in firms. We have friends who teach at the college of law and other friends who are partners in all kinds of law firms from local to magic circle.

Finding him work experience is simple, having someone check over his applications and to help with practice interviews is simple. If he doesn’t get a training contract at the start we will fund law school.

it’s a HUGE advantage for him. He has the cultural capital and the support behind him and people to help smooth the way for him in a way that the vast majority of people don’t

Mumofboys2006 · 12/10/2026 12:56

Well I find that quite depressing tbh. I guess we have ‘cultural capital’ too as both of us are lawyers but thankfully neither of my boys wanted to be lawyers - they’ve seen the burnout and anxiety first hand! I don’t practice anymore.
I would encourage young people to consider smaller firms and other routes into the law other than the city and magic circle. They are likely to get far better hands on experience. The money is really not worth it.

JuliettaCaeser · 12/10/2026 13:05

Dh firm is super strict and right on. No nepotism there. No way he could get dd a training contract.

JuliettaCaeser · 12/10/2026 13:05

I work for myself so could give a training contract but as an absolute last resort she’d rather be with a firm.

MeetMeOnTheCorner · 12/10/2026 20:17

@quequeridoMy dd had none of that at all. She went to a girls private school that wasn’t big on producing lawyers. None that were advising dd anyway. No help whatsoever, or even encouragement. Every bit of work experience she did, every mini pupilage, every scholarship she got and eventually pupilage and now a transfer to a band 1 chambers - she got through her own endeavours. As did many friends, who might not have gone to a private school, but they didn’t have any special help either. It’s extraordinarily hard to study, apply for courses and be interviewed for scholarships. Dc have to have the gumption and organisation and desire to do it. And I don’t think making excuses will wash.

Grain80 · 12/10/2026 20:57

@MeetMeOnTheCorner

I’ve been considering your comments as initially they made me quite frustrated but then I recognised I do see a little of where your coming from but I think what I find quite interesting about your comments is that you seem to equate recognising social disadvantage with making excuses, and I really don’t think they’re the same thing.

I’m sure your daughter has worked incredibly hard, and I’m certainly not questioning her achievements. But I do think there’s a difference between not having direct help with applications and not having the social and cultural capital that comes from your upbringing and education.
I say this as someone who went to an inner-city comprehensive, whose parents were barely literate, and who now has children in independent education. I can see the difference quite clearly it’s so stark - actually. It’s not necessarily about someone helping you fill in an application form or arranging work experience. It’s the conversations at home, the people you’re surrounded by, the expectations, the confidence and just having an awareness of what’s possible and then so much more on top.

And I think that’s the bit you’re perhaps missing. You talk about young people needing to understand the best routes into the profession, but how do you know what those routes are when you don’t even know certain opportunities exist? I certainly didn’t at that age, and it wasn’t for a lack of intelligence, ambition or willingness to work hard.

I also find your suggestion that people should apply to chambers where they’ll ‘fit in’ quite odd. Fit in with who exactly? And why should someone who is intellectually capable of succeeding at a particular set of chambers feel they ought to look elsewhere because they might not be the right sort of fit?

I suppose what I find frustrating is that nobody is suggesting standards should be lowered. Of course hard work, ability and ambition matter. But surely we can acknowledge that people arrive at these opportunities from very different starting points, and that those differences can shape how they’re perceived and assessed.

And actually, having children in independent education myself, I think I’d be doing them a disservice if I didn’t recognise the huge advantages they have that I simply didn’t growing up. That doesn’t mean they won’t work hard or deserve their achievements. The two things can be true.

I just don’t see how acknowledging that amounts to making excuses.

MeetMeOnTheCorner · 12/10/2026 21:35

@Grain80 You are making the assumption that dc cannot research and find things out for themselves. My DD did. I thought she had no hope! All dc have heard of Oxbridge. All dc have access to careers education. They do have to dare to be different. They must rise above nearly everyone else. Running with the herd won’t be good enough.

The vital thing dc must do is aim high for uni. Either law or an academic subject. That’s simply non negotiable but most schools do recognise a bright dc when they see one and can advise. I have to say I have no truck with the mantra that all unis are the same. I simply don’t buy that intelligent dc who want a career in law cannot work this out. There’s lots of advice and literature out there.

Then: dc are at a top uni - lots to think about. They then get work experience. They network. Maybe enter competitions. Start planning their career. Then do as much as possible to make the career happen. Uni has the huge advantage that dc can associate with others who are doing exactly the same. They cannot set themselves apart and think law comes to them. It doesn’t.

It’s very impressive if dc do get into the best firms/chambers from an unpromising background. They certainly can but not by pleading ignorance. No one told them and they didn’t bother to find out isn’t good enough.

Sets that take on all Oxbridge aren’t looking at Sheffield Hallam grads. It’s that basic. If dc isn’t commercial or is from a background where a traditional set looks daunting, don’t apply. Mini pupilages inform this. Again, this is up to dc to suss out and read up on areas of law and sets. Who do they offer tenancy to? The cvs are all there. It’s a big reason why young law grads don’t get pupilage - they scattergun the wrong sets. It’s always horses for courses! There’s movement upwards for the best. The key is to get a tenancy in the first place.

You over-egg private school advantage. The grammars and good state comps more than hold their own. The grammars have large numbers of ambitious dc and parents.

Grain80 · 13/10/2026 07:23

@MeetMeOnTheCornerI find it interesting that you encourage young people to aim high, but then suggest that those who might find a traditional chambers daunting simply shouldn’t apply. Surely that’s precisely the sort of thinking that perpetuates the inequalities I’ve been talking about?
And of course I know young people can research opportunities. I spent hours in libraries doing exactly that, applied to Oxford off my own back and attended law fairs. I’m also well aware there are excellent grammar schools and comprehensives.
But you’re confusing access to information with social and cultural capital. They’re not the same thing.
I think what I find most surprising is your assumption that those who don’t succeed simply haven’t worked hard enough or made the right choices. It’s a rather simplistic view of social mobility, if I’m honest.

tardive · 13/10/2026 07:46

Grain80 · 13/10/2026 07:23

@MeetMeOnTheCornerI find it interesting that you encourage young people to aim high, but then suggest that those who might find a traditional chambers daunting simply shouldn’t apply. Surely that’s precisely the sort of thinking that perpetuates the inequalities I’ve been talking about?
And of course I know young people can research opportunities. I spent hours in libraries doing exactly that, applied to Oxford off my own back and attended law fairs. I’m also well aware there are excellent grammar schools and comprehensives.
But you’re confusing access to information with social and cultural capital. They’re not the same thing.
I think what I find most surprising is your assumption that those who don’t succeed simply haven’t worked hard enough or made the right choices. It’s a rather simplistic view of social mobility, if I’m honest.

I agree with all of this.

It's interesting how some people send their dc to private boarding schools for all the advantages they offer and then deny all those advantages.

@MeetMeOnTheCorner if your DD really got no help, no advice and no encouragement from her school with her university application, that's shocking, and I'd expect a lot more for your money. I suspect she got a lot more support than you're suggesting though, in all sorts of different ways.

MeetMeOnTheCorner · 13/10/2026 08:02

@tardive She got absolutely none from school about becoming a barrister! She would have gone to a state grammar if we hadn’t chosen private. She passed the tests.However she studied MFLs at university so school did nothing whatsoever about her law career. I’ve no doubt that had she gone to the grammar, she would still have done MFLs.

Yes, she did LAMDA and singing exams. However she was always a confident child and I can see no link between her school and her being a barrister. I have to say her dad and me had to learn about the system as she went along. We knew nothing. We knew nobody.

I don’t believe schools can make dc more suited to this work. It has to be in them. Many of DDs friends who are barristers were not educated privately and certainly don’t come from backgrounds with lawyers advising every step of the way. They do it themselves because they have to. Private schools can help at the top end of such schools, the more ordinary schools have no barrister alumni at all! I’m well aware the school didn’t help dd. To quote her “I’ve become a barrister in spite of my school, not because of them”. She refused to become an ambassador for them, after they expressed a belated interest in her. I know perfectly well they didn’t support her ambition but I won’t go into detail.

Grain80 · 13/10/2026 10:36

MeetMeOnTheCorner · 13/10/2026 08:02

@tardive She got absolutely none from school about becoming a barrister! She would have gone to a state grammar if we hadn’t chosen private. She passed the tests.However she studied MFLs at university so school did nothing whatsoever about her law career. I’ve no doubt that had she gone to the grammar, she would still have done MFLs.

Yes, she did LAMDA and singing exams. However she was always a confident child and I can see no link between her school and her being a barrister. I have to say her dad and me had to learn about the system as she went along. We knew nothing. We knew nobody.

I don’t believe schools can make dc more suited to this work. It has to be in them. Many of DDs friends who are barristers were not educated privately and certainly don’t come from backgrounds with lawyers advising every step of the way. They do it themselves because they have to. Private schools can help at the top end of such schools, the more ordinary schools have no barrister alumni at all! I’m well aware the school didn’t help dd. To quote her “I’ve become a barrister in spite of my school, not because of them”. She refused to become an ambassador for them, after they expressed a belated interest in her. I know perfectly well they didn’t support her ambition but I won’t go into detail.

@MeetMeOnTheCornerI think we’re going to have to agree to disagree. You seem determined to view this through the lens of your daughter’s experience, whereas we’re talking about something much broader.

John Rawls’ philosophy on the moral arbitrariness of birth is perhaps worth reflecting on. None of us chooses the circumstances into which we’re born, yet those circumstances can profoundly shape the opportunities available to us.

And perhaps that’s the distinction you’re unwilling to consider. Someone’s success doesn’t disprove the existence of structural disadvantage, any more than acknowledging privilege diminishes their achievements.

I suppose the real question isn’t whether your daughter succeeded through hard work, but whether you can acknowledge that others may work just as hard and never have the same opportunities.
I’ll leave it there.

MeetMeOnTheCorner · 13/10/2026 12:11

@Grain80 I don’t have broader experience. However I can learn from what I’ve observed over the last 10 years. People can take it or leave it. I think you don’t understand the structure around being a barrister and I do actually believe any talented clever dc can do it. I know plenty from comps do. But you are not going to persuade me that second rate people will leapfrog the best. They simply won’t. So concentrate on how to be the best and play to your strengths. I’m not sure any chambers are going to spend time looking for people who didn’t grasp
opportunities. In this day and age, schools should know exactly what dc should be advised to do even if the dc doesn’t know. It’s easy enough to find out and I’ve explained how. If dc cannot do it, they aren’t right for the bar. However some do and are very successful.

Grain80 · 13/10/2026 13:48

MeetMeOnTheCorner · 13/10/2026 12:11

@Grain80 I don’t have broader experience. However I can learn from what I’ve observed over the last 10 years. People can take it or leave it. I think you don’t understand the structure around being a barrister and I do actually believe any talented clever dc can do it. I know plenty from comps do. But you are not going to persuade me that second rate people will leapfrog the best. They simply won’t. So concentrate on how to be the best and play to your strengths. I’m not sure any chambers are going to spend time looking for people who didn’t grasp
opportunities. In this day and age, schools should know exactly what dc should be advised to do even if the dc doesn’t know. It’s easy enough to find out and I’ve explained how. If dc cannot do it, they aren’t right for the bar. However some do and are very successful.

@MeetMeOnTheCornerJeez!!!! I’m not entirely sure why you keep assuming I don’t understand how the Bar operates. I considered a career at the Bar myself, have visited the Inns of Court, and have barristers within my very close social circle, including two KCs. I’m hardly unfamiliar with the profession.
But more importantly, I find your reference to “second-rate people” quite extraordinary. At no point have I suggested that less capable people should be given opportunities over more capable candidates. I’m questioning how we recognise ability in the first place.
Not knowing how to navigate a system doesn’t make someone intellectually inferior or less capable of succeeding within it.
I think you’ve rather demonstrated the very attitudes I’ve been questioning throughout this discussion. And on that note, I’ll leave it there. All the best to your daughter.

MeetMeOnTheCorner · 13/10/2026 14:04

@Grain80 Jeez exactly! Unfortunately we have exams and entry tests. It’s how it works. You haven’t done it yourself and your dc haven’t. Your friends are not young barristers. If their chambers take on dc and hope for the best, that’s up to them. The top London sets don’t and they are confident they get the best. 40% Oxbridge tells its own story. Second rate will be determined by exam results, lack of scholarships, lack of work experience and uni attended. Look at the stats! It’s not me saying this. It’s very clear from any stats and surveys. Wage war if you want but these top London chambers don’t think they are missing talent when thousands are trained every year and they have hundreds to choose from. Still, you know best - of course.

returntomotherland · 13/10/2026 19:17

Wow

Grain80 · 13/10/2026 22:40

returntomotherland · 13/10/2026 19:17

Wow

@returntomotherlandI know. I think she’s rather spectacularly made my point for me 😂