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Feminism: chat

Grooming by “Famous” Men

173 replies

CaveMum · 17/11/2021 09:35

I saw this post on Facebook, posted by the account Women’s Voices Matter and thought it well worth sharing to show how blatant the abuse of young girls by “famous” men is.

Grooming.... let's talk about it:

Let's start back in 1919. Charlie Chaplin, who would become one of the most famous and celebrated movie stars of all time, was 29 when he married 16 year old aspiring actress Mildred Harris. Their marriage only lasted 2 years. In 1924, Chaplin repeated the pattern with another 16 year old, Lita Gray. He met Lita when she was just 6 and began taking her on dates around the age of 12.

1954 -- Sam Cooke meets a 12-year old Aretha Franklin and brings her to his hotel room. Before her father interrupted, Aretha said the conversation "took another turn."

In 1957, 23 year old Jerry Lee Lewis married his cousin, 13 year old Myra Brown. She still believed in Santa.

Also in 1957, 16 year old Anna Mae Bullock met 24 year old Ike Turner. He quickly took her into his band, helped make her a star, and began to treat the newly christened "Tina" as if he owned her. They married 6 years later. Tina once wrote that she was afraid not to accept his proposal.

In 1959, Elvis Presley met his future wife. He was 25 and she was 14. They stayed in touch via phone and letters for the next 2 1/2 years. At that time, Elvis took her on a drug romp to Vegas, followed by moving her into his Graceland mansion. They didn't marry until 1967. While both parties claimed that Priscilla was a virgin on her wedding night, biographer Susan Finstad makes a strong case that this could not be true. Priscilla herself has admitted that she & Elvis slept in the same bed and that Elvis "taught (her) other ways to please him." Elvis reportedly had a predeliction for 14 year old girls, both before and after his marriage to Priscilla.

Chuck Berry was arrested and found guilty of transporting an underage girl across state lines for immoral purposes, spending two years in jail in 1960.

In 1969, Sable Starr, queen of the so-called "baby groupies", had a brief relationship with Iggy Pop. She was 13. He later wrote a song about it. Starr had sexual relationships with many other band members, including encouters with David Bowie, Mick Jagger, and Rod Stewart.

It's 1972 and Rock stars are still having sex with little girls and everyone knows it, but no one does anything about it. Lori Mattix tells of losing her virginity at age 14 to David Bowie. She went on to start "dating" Led Zeppelin's Jimmy Page that same year, a relationsihp that began when Page's manager kidnapped her and brought her to Jimmy's hotel room. Page kept Lori essentially locked up in his house for most of their 18 months together. The "baby groupie" also reports a sexual relationship with Mick Jagger when she was just 17.

In 1973, married singer Marvin Gaye met and pursued 17 year old Janis Hunter. He wrote "Let's Get it On" as a tribute to his lust for her. Marvin took his teen date to dinner shortly after they met, where he bribed the waiter to bring her alcohol, then had sex with her later that night. They had a baby by the time she was 18, and married in 1977. The marriage lasted just 3 years.

In 1975, Steven Tyler purchased the guardianship of a 16 year old girl (Julia Holcomb) from her mother when he was 27 so that he could legally take her with him across state lines while he was on tour.

In 1978, Ted Nugent also purchases the guardianship of a teenager from her parents. He was 30, Pele Massa was 17. Years later, Ted reportedly received oral sex from a 12 year old Courtney Love.

March 10, 1977. One of the most well-known cases. Director Roman Polanski drugs and rapes 13 year old Samantha Gailey. Allowed to plead guilty to a lesser charge, Polanski nevertheless fled to France before sentencing and remains exiled from the United States. He has not been exiled, however, from Hollywood and continues to make movies and win awards to this day.
Eagles drummer and vocalist Don Henley was arrested in 1980 in Los Angeles after paramedics were called to his home to save a naked 16-year-old girl who was overdosing on cocaine and Quaaludes.

Colored over as a a "grand romance" and a "decades long relationship", Celine Dion was 12 years old when 38 year old Rene Angelil became her manager. They went public with their relationship when she was 19.
I
n 1984, Rolling Stones bassist Bill Wyman started dating Mandy Smith. She was 13. Although they did not marry until she was 18, Mandy says she was 14 when they first had sex. Mr. Wyman has never been investigated, much less prosecuted.

Red Hot Chili Peppers' lead Anthony Kiedis readily admits to having sex with a 14 year old girl when he was 23. According to him, once he confirmed her age he "had sex with her again." In 1986, the 24-year old musician began dating 16 year old Ione Skye.

In 1990, 16 year old Mayte Garcia's mother sent a video of her belly-dancing to Prince. He arranged to meet her, confirmed she was 16 and a year later moved her into his house. When she was 19, he initiated a sexual relationshi by informing her it was time to go on birth control. They married when she was 22 and he was 37. Before Mayte, Prince met "Anna Fantastic" when she was 15. At 17, she moved into his compound where they had a two year long relationship.

In 1991, 32 year old director Luc Besson met and eventually married model Maïwenn Le Besco when she was 15. Their relationship inspired his movie Léon: The Professional (1994), which followed an emotional relationship between an adult man and a young girl.

In 1993, Jerry Seinfeld picked up a high school student in a public park. He was 39 and she was 17. He and Shoshanna Lonstein dated for four years -- through her college years.

Also in 1993, MC Ren of N.W.A. was accused of raping and impregnating a 16 year old girl in the group's tour bus. The case never went to trial, however a paternity test showed that he was the father of the girl's baby.

Noted pedophile R Kelley secretly married R&B singer Aaliyah in 1994 when she was 15 and he was 27. They met when she was 12 and he later helped write and produce her first album -- "Age Ain't Nothing but a Number."

In 1995, teen star Brandy (age 16) started dating 21-year-old Boyz II Men member Wanya Morris. Keeping their relationship under wraps due to her age proved too stressful for the couple and they broke up soon after.

In 1997, Woody Allen should have become notorious when he married his de facto step-daughter. Though she was 21 at the time of the wedding, the two met when she 8. No matter the spin, the facts are stark. This wasn't the only time Allen dated a much younger woman. Actress Babi Christina Engelhardt began a years-long love affair with Allen when she was 16 and he was 41. When Allen was 42, he romanced 17-year-old actress and high school senior Stacey Nelkin.

It's the early-mid 2000s and "That 70s Show" actor, Wilmer Valderrama, continues to date teenage girls in an effort to deny that he is now over 30. He dated 16-year-old Mandy Moore despite being four years her senior. At age 24, Valderrama dated 17-year-old Lindsay Lohan though they kept the relationship a secret until her 18th birthday in 2004. In 2010, the 30-year-old began dating 17-year-old Demi Lovato.

In 2001, Fast & Furious star Paul Walker (28 at the time) was dating 16-year old Aubrianna Atwell. This was not Paul's last time to date a teenager. His girlfriend at the time of his death, Jasmine Pilchard-Gosnell, was 23 to his 40. They met when she was 16.

Back in 2004, 26 year old Joel Madden and Hilary Duff did the familiar dance of being "just friends" until her 18th birthday in 2006. When asked about whether she was intimate with Madden or not in a 2015 interview with Cosmopolitan, Duff stated, "I had a 26-year-old boyfriend. So everyone can make their own assumptions about what I was doing."
In 2005, clean cut TV heartthrob Chad Michael Murray begins dating a girl in high school. They get engaged when she turns 18 and Murray calls her a "little sweetheart" and says they have been together "for awhile."

Similarly, in 2006, co-stars Hayden Panettiere and Milo Ventimiglia began dating. She was 17. He was 12 years her senior.

Actor Doug Hutchison married 16-year-old Courtney Stodden in 2011, when he was 51 years old. The dysfunctional pair became famous as reality stars, with Courtney undergoing extensive plastic surgery to maintain their image.

Rapper Tyga and Kylie Jenner began "hanging out" an awful lot beginning in 2014 when she was 16 and he was 24. They dated on and off after that, though they became a lot more openly "on" after her 18th birthday in 2016.

In late 2018, 44 year old Leonardo DiCaprio publicly reveals that he is dating 21 year old model Camilla Morrone. It's not the age gap that puts Leo on our list, it's the fact that he's known Camilla since she was 11.

2018 14 year old Millie Bobby Brown innocently revealed that rapper, Drake, age 31, has been close friends with her, for the last year giving her advice about boys. He texts her, "I miss you." This is the same Drake who has, more than once, skated around that "just friends until she turns 18" line most recently with 18 year old model Bella Harris.

Guys, this isn't a friendship. This is GROOMING. No one will stop it. They'll "date." He'll have sex with her, probably in a couple of years. No one will care because he's a man and a star.

NO ONE WILL CARE UNLESS WE START MAKING PEOPLE CARE.

Make them care. No free passes. No 2nd chances. A ruined career is the least they deserve. It's not cute. THIS IS NOT OK.

~ Verity Violet

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Lalgarh · 14/09/2024 13:04

Judy Garland was barely 16 when she married got involved with Artie Shaw.

Just checked. He dumped her to elope with Lana Turner

XChrome · 14/09/2024 21:20

Sinisterdexter · 14/09/2024 08:11

There’s also all the teen girls selected by staff to meet their idol backstage and pressured into having sex.
A client told me of a famous star in the late 60’s, a now old and still active uk singer, who she was taken with her friend to meet. When the door opened the ‘star’ was shagging a girl from behind, she looked about 15 and the singer joked who’s next?
The client told me that they fled and she never liked him again.

I'm guessing Rod Stewart.

AliasGrace47 · 04/05/2025 02:24

Just reading Mayte Garcia's book The Most Beautiful, depressingly Prince definitely deserves to be on this list. He was her legal guardian from 17 (he was 32) it's really creepy despite always being presented as a great love story. His treatment of her during the marriage was horrible- forcing her to go on Oprah after their son had died. Before they married, cutting her wages bc she had put on weight is bad too..
www.irishtimes.com/culture/music/living-with-prince-i-think-it-s-time-you-got-birth-control-1.3035015

AliasGrace47 · 04/05/2025 02:42

The story of Sable Starr, one of the so-called baby groupies mentioned in the article, is v disturbing. Others were similarly abused it seems, but apparently she had her first 'relationship' with a Spirit guitarist at 12 😡

AliasGrace47 · 17/07/2025 20:52

Another v disturbing example I just found out is Sophia Loren, one of my favourite actresses. Her relationship w long term husband & discoverer Carlo Ponti began when she was 15 and he was a married 37yo 🤢, per Wikipedia

JazbayGrapes · 18/07/2025 17:58

I'm going to play devil's advocate - it WAS a different time. No, that doesn't make it right, but we cannot really apply modern day morals posthumously.

AliasGrace47 · 18/07/2025 18:57

JazbayGrapes · 18/07/2025 17:58

I'm going to play devil's advocate - it WAS a different time. No, that doesn't make it right, but we cannot really apply modern day morals posthumously.

Hmm...depends. in some cases yes. But would the groupie cases of 14-15yos, sometimes younger, having relationships w adults, been seen as OK?

To take my Sophia Loren example, was it typical in 1950s Rome for 15yos to marry men in their late 30s? I doubt it.

Charlize43 · 19/07/2025 09:27

AliasGrace47 · 18/07/2025 18:57

Hmm...depends. in some cases yes. But would the groupie cases of 14-15yos, sometimes younger, having relationships w adults, been seen as OK?

To take my Sophia Loren example, was it typical in 1950s Rome for 15yos to marry men in their late 30s? I doubt it.

Producer Dino De Laurentiis,30, married 19 year old Silvana Mangano in 1949. He was the producer on her first film and then went on produce most of her films and build her into a big star. Maybe it wasn't so unusual then, especially in the film world.

Not just women, homosexual poet and filmmaker Jean Cocteau (49) took Jean Marais (25) as his lover and made him into a big star. That's an almost 25 year old difference.

Clark Gable, 17, first wife was his 40 year old establish actress, acting teacher.

Madonna (60) enriching the lives of her 20 something Brazilian boyfriends...

Would a 17 year old wannabe actor Aaron Johnson have been interested in 42 year old Sam Taylor-Wood if she hadn't been an extremely wealthy film director but a 42 year old nurse working for the NHS or office administrator?

Call me cynical, but I doubt it.

Money = Power. They'll never be a shortage of people with money wanting to buy and people without it prepared to sell themselves in order to get some...

Has Sophia Loren ever talked bad about her husband or said that she felt exploited?

AliasGrace47 · 19/07/2025 13:27

Hmmm.... Mangano, Marais, the Brazilian boyfriends were all over 18..that's less problematic to me, esp 25yo Marais. I'm quite a fan of both him & Cocteau, & I do think there was genuine love, but w them & the others I also think there was likely an element of exploitation on both sides, esp w the huge power differential. I suspect probs the same could be true for the others, tho I'm less familiar w them. Mangano interests me, I'll read up on her.

Gable & Johnson, hmm..17 is more of a grey area for me but I do think that is more unethical. Not denying they could also have pursued the relationships out of self-interest. Surprised me about Gable, I had no idea about that marriage.

Reading further on Loren's story, an interesting one, she was the daughter of an actress whose lover abandoned her, her dad was never in the picture. She openly says in her memoir that her much-older husband was a father figure to her, & they were reportedly happy despite biographer claiming Ponti had many affairs & the marriage was 'often strained.' She also speaks about him shaping her career, ambition probs did play a part on her side.

I'm not saying that the age gap means he treated her badly apart from that, pr that she couldn't have an ambitious agenda herself. But I stand by my opinion that a 37yo dating a 15yo bereft of a father figure is inherently unethical.

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2022/08/sophia-loren-memoir-cary-grant#:~:text=Decades%20later%2C%20the%20excitement%20and,was%20much%20more%20than%20that.

Bellissima: Sophia Loren’s Love-Filled Life

The Italian bombshell gets candid, if not exactly warts-and-all, in her delightful memoir, ‘Yesterday, Today, Tomorrow: My Life.’

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2022/08/sophia-loren-memoir-cary-grant#:~:text=Decades%20later%2C%20the%20excitement%20and,was%20much%20more%20than%20that.

AliasGrace47 · 19/07/2025 13:32

Digging into Gable's marriage to Dillon, apparently it was never consummated according to her (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephine_Dillon#:~:text=Josephine%20Dillon%20%2D%20Wikipedia,acting%20coach%20and%20first%20wife.)

. The entire thing seems v murky & hard to make judgements about. Apparently he made abusive phone calls to her in later years, it doesn't really say why, odd given the generous help she had given him.
It's fair to say Dillon was not in his league looks-wise, & he seems to have cared about looks judging by his later lovers & wives. It seems more like in this case he was exploiting her, tho ofc it's hard to know

JazbayGrapes · 19/07/2025 17:02

AliasGrace47 · 18/07/2025 18:57

Hmm...depends. in some cases yes. But would the groupie cases of 14-15yos, sometimes younger, having relationships w adults, been seen as OK?

To take my Sophia Loren example, was it typical in 1950s Rome for 15yos to marry men in their late 30s? I doubt it.

Not sure about Rome, but it wasn't unusual for girls back in the day to be married and having kids by at 16. So courtship would have begun earlier. And yes, men would have been older, because they needed to be self sufficient and able to provide.

AliasGrace47 · 19/07/2025 21:20

JazbayGrapes · 19/07/2025 17:02

Not sure about Rome, but it wasn't unusual for girls back in the day to be married and having kids by at 16. So courtship would have begun earlier. And yes, men would have been older, because they needed to be self sufficient and able to provide.

Older, yes, but would 15yos w 37yos have been a typical age gap?

That's not counting the huge power difference in this case

AliasGrace47 · 19/07/2025 21:35

JazbayGrapes · 19/07/2025 17:02

Not sure about Rome, but it wasn't unusual for girls back in the day to be married and having kids by at 16. So courtship would have begun earlier. And yes, men would have been older, because they needed to be self sufficient and able to provide.

What country and period are you referring to when you say 'back in the day'?

This link shows the mean & median ages for marriage in the UK & US over the past century. Even in the 1950s, when it drops v low in both countries, the average age is around 20 for women and early 20s for men. (Marrying men in late 30s not a norm either, fortunately)

It doesn't seem to bear out the claim that 'back in the day' it was normal for 15-16yo girls to be married w kids on the way. I'd be interested to hear which countries this was referring to.

https://www.datawrapper.de/blog/historical-marriage-age-britain

StandFirm · 20/07/2025 10:32

I've not read the full thread so perhaps this has already been raised but I'm here to point out that grooming is not the preserve of rich and famous men. Rather, the rich and famous are symptomatic of something that is very widespread - basically anywhere older men have easy and prolonged access to young girls (and boys, I do know it happens to boys too). It happens in classrooms all over the place, in sports clubs, afterschool activities, churches etc. Rape that results from grooming and stranger rape are both incredibly traumatic. There is no hierarchy in which is worse. But I think that the reason grooming is so hard to get over is because of the systematic gaslighting and dismantling of everything that makes a person and how it invalidates their judgement. Basically, grooming allows the perp to manipulate the victim into thinking they had agency when they really didn't and that somehow they are complicit in their own abuse. The guilt is off the charts. MeToo brought this behaviour into the spotlight for a brief little while but where is it now? Look how swift the backlash has been. I truly worry that the little manosphere reactionary fucks are trying to make this behaviour normal again. They make me physically sick.

JazbayGrapes · 21/07/2025 14:59

AliasGrace47 · 19/07/2025 21:35

What country and period are you referring to when you say 'back in the day'?

This link shows the mean & median ages for marriage in the UK & US over the past century. Even in the 1950s, when it drops v low in both countries, the average age is around 20 for women and early 20s for men. (Marrying men in late 30s not a norm either, fortunately)

It doesn't seem to bear out the claim that 'back in the day' it was normal for 15-16yo girls to be married w kids on the way. I'd be interested to hear which countries this was referring to.

https://www.datawrapper.de/blog/historical-marriage-age-britain

Edited

I personally know two women in their 70s (UK) who got married and had children at 16. Then i know a man in his 60s (US) whose mother was married and had him at 15 while his father was in his 20s - he himself said that it would mean jail sentence today.

AliasGrace47 · 21/07/2025 15:56

JazbayGrapes · 21/07/2025 14:59

I personally know two women in their 70s (UK) who got married and had children at 16. Then i know a man in his 60s (US) whose mother was married and had him at 15 while his father was in his 20s - he himself said that it would mean jail sentence today.

So the US man's mother had got pregnant at 14?

Thank you for the info. I understand this did occur, and still does in the US. I just dispute that it 'wasn't unusual'. Even in the 1950s, when the average marriage age was at its lowest, esp for women, 20 was still the average for the UK and US.

(The Ponti-Loren case is a bit more complicated than that anyway, given he was married at the time, & divorce was illegal in Italy)

Inquizitive · 08/08/2025 11:06

Have you seen Becket's social media posts? The level of grooming is so severe she performs excessive praise and love for her father and mother who is also her sister. Soon Yi was her husbands daughter which makes Becket her sister. This level of grooming may be loyalty and emotional but its no less heart breaking.

Inquizitive · 08/08/2025 11:10

T.I. Virginity tests his daughter every year.

StandFirm · 08/08/2025 16:51

borogovia · 23/11/2021 23:25

No, I can't see it working either. I think 16 is a pretty reasonable age of consent. Even if you set it at 18, I don't see the point of worrying very much about 16 or 17 year olds having sex.

I think the age of consent should remain at 16 but with a maximum of a two year gap extending to 17-19 tolerated (say the couple meets when they're just 16 and 17/almost 18 respectively). That would mean a 19 year old should keep their hands off a 16 year old (and below of course). That would prevent teens being criminalised for having sex whilst setting better rules that protect them from grown adult predators. Once you're over 18 those restrictions would stop applying.

Inquizitive · 08/08/2025 18:17

There is a another post going around with women claiming men are less drama and they get on better with them. Its sickening to my stomach. We know that politicians were friends with groomers like Epstein and his client book likely ranged in the thousands. One of his victims committed suicide. The accusations against Prince Andrew were so convincing the Queen demoted him. He has a long history of abusing people and many people publicly outing him as an asshole. It may not be a smoking gun because many abusers have a facade of charm but when someone commits suicide, its a smoking gun.

HRTQueen · 15/08/2025 14:49

JazbayGrapes · 18/07/2025 17:58

I'm going to play devil's advocate - it WAS a different time. No, that doesn't make it right, but we cannot really apply modern day morals posthumously.

It was not ok in the 60's for men to be having sex and hanging out with young girls of 13/14 maybe 15 was ok with some but not 13 and certainly not in the 80's

The notorious predator of girls and young women the disgusting Jimmy Page kept his relationship with Lori Maddox quiet for some time (or tried to) as she was just that bit too young

Stop making excuses for these vile men they new they just didn't care

David Bowie gets off the hook far too often because people want to see him as a good guy, he wasn't at times he was a vile creep. I find it very odd how some of these predators are excused while others are not

NewspaperTaxis · 26/08/2025 11:44

I agree with the above. It's odd, it's like some modern pop stars are the New Establishment and therefore the State turns a blind eye. This is because their disgrace embarrasses the public, it changes their perspective and self-history in the same way that the exposure of a member of the Royal family would have done.

So David Bowie, Pete Townsend re his internet 'research' would get a free pass. Others, like Cliff Richard who imo hasn't done anything wrong, can get thrown under a bus because ironically they are not quite part of the establishment, Cliff has gone his own way a bit. Of course, if he'd been involved in some State-authorised paedophilic ring there's no way the Met would have investigated it, they have no form for that, only for covering it up. The very fact they went after him looks like classic Met misdirection - 'Hey, we're onto this!'

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