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Feminism: chat

Grooming by “Famous” Men

173 replies

CaveMum · 17/11/2021 09:35

I saw this post on Facebook, posted by the account Women’s Voices Matter and thought it well worth sharing to show how blatant the abuse of young girls by “famous” men is.

Grooming.... let's talk about it:

Let's start back in 1919. Charlie Chaplin, who would become one of the most famous and celebrated movie stars of all time, was 29 when he married 16 year old aspiring actress Mildred Harris. Their marriage only lasted 2 years. In 1924, Chaplin repeated the pattern with another 16 year old, Lita Gray. He met Lita when she was just 6 and began taking her on dates around the age of 12.

1954 -- Sam Cooke meets a 12-year old Aretha Franklin and brings her to his hotel room. Before her father interrupted, Aretha said the conversation "took another turn."

In 1957, 23 year old Jerry Lee Lewis married his cousin, 13 year old Myra Brown. She still believed in Santa.

Also in 1957, 16 year old Anna Mae Bullock met 24 year old Ike Turner. He quickly took her into his band, helped make her a star, and began to treat the newly christened "Tina" as if he owned her. They married 6 years later. Tina once wrote that she was afraid not to accept his proposal.

In 1959, Elvis Presley met his future wife. He was 25 and she was 14. They stayed in touch via phone and letters for the next 2 1/2 years. At that time, Elvis took her on a drug romp to Vegas, followed by moving her into his Graceland mansion. They didn't marry until 1967. While both parties claimed that Priscilla was a virgin on her wedding night, biographer Susan Finstad makes a strong case that this could not be true. Priscilla herself has admitted that she & Elvis slept in the same bed and that Elvis "taught (her) other ways to please him." Elvis reportedly had a predeliction for 14 year old girls, both before and after his marriage to Priscilla.

Chuck Berry was arrested and found guilty of transporting an underage girl across state lines for immoral purposes, spending two years in jail in 1960.

In 1969, Sable Starr, queen of the so-called "baby groupies", had a brief relationship with Iggy Pop. She was 13. He later wrote a song about it. Starr had sexual relationships with many other band members, including encouters with David Bowie, Mick Jagger, and Rod Stewart.

It's 1972 and Rock stars are still having sex with little girls and everyone knows it, but no one does anything about it. Lori Mattix tells of losing her virginity at age 14 to David Bowie. She went on to start "dating" Led Zeppelin's Jimmy Page that same year, a relationsihp that began when Page's manager kidnapped her and brought her to Jimmy's hotel room. Page kept Lori essentially locked up in his house for most of their 18 months together. The "baby groupie" also reports a sexual relationship with Mick Jagger when she was just 17.

In 1973, married singer Marvin Gaye met and pursued 17 year old Janis Hunter. He wrote "Let's Get it On" as a tribute to his lust for her. Marvin took his teen date to dinner shortly after they met, where he bribed the waiter to bring her alcohol, then had sex with her later that night. They had a baby by the time she was 18, and married in 1977. The marriage lasted just 3 years.

In 1975, Steven Tyler purchased the guardianship of a 16 year old girl (Julia Holcomb) from her mother when he was 27 so that he could legally take her with him across state lines while he was on tour.

In 1978, Ted Nugent also purchases the guardianship of a teenager from her parents. He was 30, Pele Massa was 17. Years later, Ted reportedly received oral sex from a 12 year old Courtney Love.

March 10, 1977. One of the most well-known cases. Director Roman Polanski drugs and rapes 13 year old Samantha Gailey. Allowed to plead guilty to a lesser charge, Polanski nevertheless fled to France before sentencing and remains exiled from the United States. He has not been exiled, however, from Hollywood and continues to make movies and win awards to this day.
Eagles drummer and vocalist Don Henley was arrested in 1980 in Los Angeles after paramedics were called to his home to save a naked 16-year-old girl who was overdosing on cocaine and Quaaludes.

Colored over as a a "grand romance" and a "decades long relationship", Celine Dion was 12 years old when 38 year old Rene Angelil became her manager. They went public with their relationship when she was 19.
I
n 1984, Rolling Stones bassist Bill Wyman started dating Mandy Smith. She was 13. Although they did not marry until she was 18, Mandy says she was 14 when they first had sex. Mr. Wyman has never been investigated, much less prosecuted.

Red Hot Chili Peppers' lead Anthony Kiedis readily admits to having sex with a 14 year old girl when he was 23. According to him, once he confirmed her age he "had sex with her again." In 1986, the 24-year old musician began dating 16 year old Ione Skye.

In 1990, 16 year old Mayte Garcia's mother sent a video of her belly-dancing to Prince. He arranged to meet her, confirmed she was 16 and a year later moved her into his house. When she was 19, he initiated a sexual relationshi by informing her it was time to go on birth control. They married when she was 22 and he was 37. Before Mayte, Prince met "Anna Fantastic" when she was 15. At 17, she moved into his compound where they had a two year long relationship.

In 1991, 32 year old director Luc Besson met and eventually married model Maïwenn Le Besco when she was 15. Their relationship inspired his movie Léon: The Professional (1994), which followed an emotional relationship between an adult man and a young girl.

In 1993, Jerry Seinfeld picked up a high school student in a public park. He was 39 and she was 17. He and Shoshanna Lonstein dated for four years -- through her college years.

Also in 1993, MC Ren of N.W.A. was accused of raping and impregnating a 16 year old girl in the group's tour bus. The case never went to trial, however a paternity test showed that he was the father of the girl's baby.

Noted pedophile R Kelley secretly married R&B singer Aaliyah in 1994 when she was 15 and he was 27. They met when she was 12 and he later helped write and produce her first album -- "Age Ain't Nothing but a Number."

In 1995, teen star Brandy (age 16) started dating 21-year-old Boyz II Men member Wanya Morris. Keeping their relationship under wraps due to her age proved too stressful for the couple and they broke up soon after.

In 1997, Woody Allen should have become notorious when he married his de facto step-daughter. Though she was 21 at the time of the wedding, the two met when she 8. No matter the spin, the facts are stark. This wasn't the only time Allen dated a much younger woman. Actress Babi Christina Engelhardt began a years-long love affair with Allen when she was 16 and he was 41. When Allen was 42, he romanced 17-year-old actress and high school senior Stacey Nelkin.

It's the early-mid 2000s and "That 70s Show" actor, Wilmer Valderrama, continues to date teenage girls in an effort to deny that he is now over 30. He dated 16-year-old Mandy Moore despite being four years her senior. At age 24, Valderrama dated 17-year-old Lindsay Lohan though they kept the relationship a secret until her 18th birthday in 2004. In 2010, the 30-year-old began dating 17-year-old Demi Lovato.

In 2001, Fast & Furious star Paul Walker (28 at the time) was dating 16-year old Aubrianna Atwell. This was not Paul's last time to date a teenager. His girlfriend at the time of his death, Jasmine Pilchard-Gosnell, was 23 to his 40. They met when she was 16.

Back in 2004, 26 year old Joel Madden and Hilary Duff did the familiar dance of being "just friends" until her 18th birthday in 2006. When asked about whether she was intimate with Madden or not in a 2015 interview with Cosmopolitan, Duff stated, "I had a 26-year-old boyfriend. So everyone can make their own assumptions about what I was doing."
In 2005, clean cut TV heartthrob Chad Michael Murray begins dating a girl in high school. They get engaged when she turns 18 and Murray calls her a "little sweetheart" and says they have been together "for awhile."

Similarly, in 2006, co-stars Hayden Panettiere and Milo Ventimiglia began dating. She was 17. He was 12 years her senior.

Actor Doug Hutchison married 16-year-old Courtney Stodden in 2011, when he was 51 years old. The dysfunctional pair became famous as reality stars, with Courtney undergoing extensive plastic surgery to maintain their image.

Rapper Tyga and Kylie Jenner began "hanging out" an awful lot beginning in 2014 when she was 16 and he was 24. They dated on and off after that, though they became a lot more openly "on" after her 18th birthday in 2016.

In late 2018, 44 year old Leonardo DiCaprio publicly reveals that he is dating 21 year old model Camilla Morrone. It's not the age gap that puts Leo on our list, it's the fact that he's known Camilla since she was 11.

2018 14 year old Millie Bobby Brown innocently revealed that rapper, Drake, age 31, has been close friends with her, for the last year giving her advice about boys. He texts her, "I miss you." This is the same Drake who has, more than once, skated around that "just friends until she turns 18" line most recently with 18 year old model Bella Harris.

Guys, this isn't a friendship. This is GROOMING. No one will stop it. They'll "date." He'll have sex with her, probably in a couple of years. No one will care because he's a man and a star.

NO ONE WILL CARE UNLESS WE START MAKING PEOPLE CARE.

Make them care. No free passes. No 2nd chances. A ruined career is the least they deserve. It's not cute. THIS IS NOT OK.

~ Verity Violet

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
beatrice14 · 23/11/2021 22:23

sorry, i meant boyfriend

borogovia · 23/11/2021 22:52

So do we think the age of consent in this country should be changed, from 16 to 18 or even older?

LobsterNapkin · 23/11/2021 23:12

@Wheresmywoolyjumpers

Sickening. There was a documentary about the Woody Allen thing which I watched not too long ago - lots of info I did not know, and really well done.
It's worth not just looking at what Farrow has said about this. Part of the reason Allan wasn't convicted is that others in the family disputed her claims about what happened, and the assessors who worked with the kids tended to agree. There are some pretty serious accusations that are difficult to simply discount that Farrow herself was abusive and manipulated the children for her own purposes.

The whole family was a mess.

LobsterNapkin · 23/11/2021 23:14

@borogovia

So do we think the age of consent in this country should be changed, from 16 to 18 or even older?
I honestly can't see that working.

I have heard people say that it should be changed to allow only for certain age gaps, but I've never heard a very convincing explanation of when you'd set it. People will often say that the brain doesn't finish developing until 25 in these discussions, but I can't seriously picture the law telling people who they can have sex with at that age, when they could potentially be married with kids.

borogovia · 23/11/2021 23:25

No, I can't see it working either. I think 16 is a pretty reasonable age of consent. Even if you set it at 18, I don't see the point of worrying very much about 16 or 17 year olds having sex.

KimikosNightmare · 24/11/2021 00:05

@borogovia

So do we think the age of consent in this country should be changed, from 16 to 18 or even older?
No. 16 is right.
OrangeJuiceAndNoodles · 24/11/2021 00:08

Jesus Christ.

brighousepres · 24/11/2021 07:39

16 /17 is fine IMO.

The age and power difference / imbalance is something I want to tell my DC to avoid though!

BarefootHippieChick · 24/11/2021 09:39

@borogovia

So do we think the age of consent in this country should be changed, from 16 to 18 or even older?

I think 16 is fine. If it changed to 18 lots of 16/17 year olds would still be having sex anyway regardless. Its probably the age where your hormones are rampaging the most.

OrangeJuiceAndNoodles · 24/11/2021 09:42

I think 16 is fine and teenagers are exploring by that point anyway, typically.

It's just creepy (but unpoliceable) when much older men think it's fine to sleep with girls of that age and younger.

CaveMum · 24/11/2021 09:43

@LobsterNapkin re Woody Allen, I highly recommend listening to the podcast I mentioned early in the thread. It goes into great detail, including covering why the assessments were flawed and should be discounted, and also that the Judge in the later custody case found absolutely no evidence that Mia Farrow had coached Dylan.

There are 10 episodes just on this case, each about 45 min long, so it’s very thorough. First episode here: podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/real-crime-profile/id1081244497?i=1000518089651

OP posts:
LobsterNapkin · 24/11/2021 16:26

[quote CaveMum]@LobsterNapkin re Woody Allen, I highly recommend listening to the podcast I mentioned early in the thread. It goes into great detail, including covering why the assessments were flawed and should be discounted, and also that the Judge in the later custody case found absolutely no evidence that Mia Farrow had coached Dylan.

There are 10 episodes just on this case, each about 45 min long, so it’s very thorough. First episode here: podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/real-crime-profile/id1081244497?i=1000518089651[/quote]
Have you looked at anything else?

I don't think the public will ever be able to know what really happened with this. Farrow just isn't a reliable witness.

Snoozer11 · 24/11/2021 19:10

The only reason Bowie gets away with it is because he wore make up and women's clothes.

shiningjustforyou · 24/11/2021 20:04

@Snoozer11

The only reason Bowie gets away with it is because he wore make up and women's clothes.
Bullshit. He got away with it but that's not why. Same reason as John Peel. They were too popular, they were almost sainted so people didn't want to believe it/excused it.
mysteriouspearl · 24/11/2021 21:30

There isn't a problem with the age of consent, i think 16 is fine, it's unrealistic to expect kids to wait to wait to 18. The issue is when there is a big age gap/power imbalance.

foxlover47 · 24/11/2021 21:59

@NoNotMeNoSiree yeah this !! It was always Mandy smith party girl , wild child bla bla and she was very glamourised
What a filthy vile
Man Wyman was and all their enablers

beatrice14 · 25/11/2021 19:48

Melanie Griffith and Frank Sinatra
askinglot.com/how-old-is-melanie-griffith-and...
Mariel Hemingway and Woody Allen
Mariel Hemingway Says Woody Allen Tried to Seduce Her When She Was a Teenager – vanity fair
Judy Garland and Spencer Tracy
SPENCER TRACY - A nightmare of a man. ⋆ Historian Alan Royle
Brigitte Bardot and Roger Vadim
www.grunge.com/644253/brigitte-bardots-tragic...
Mia Farrow and Frank Sinatra
thisrecording.com/today/2011/10/19/in-which-mia-farrow...
Carrie Fisher and several
titra24.com/english/carrie-fisher-said-38-year.
www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-5879965
Elizabeth Taylor and several men
www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3276713
Robert and Clara Schumann -he was nineteen and she nine when they first met
Emanuelle Seigner
www.imetpolanski.com
By his own admission, Polanski has always been drawn to girls in their teens. He met his current wife, Emmanuelle Seigner, when she was 19 and he was 52. In his autobiography, Roman, he speaks candidly of going to bed with 15-year-old girls as a grown man.
Kirk Douglas, in his autobiography the Ragman's son, he writes:
In Chapter 12 "Israel", Douglas meets General Moshe Dayan and his family, including his "precocious" TWELVE year-old daughter, Ya'el. The following paragraph is reproduced in full:
"Ya'el was a very bright girl, sexy even at that young age. Jokingly, I said, 'Listen, Ya'el, here's a dime. When you get to be seventeen or eighteen, if you're around Hollywood, call me.' Sure enough, about five or six years later, I got a call in Los Angeles. It was Ya'el Dayan. 'Well, here I am.' Israelis are amazing people."

*In Chapter 19 "Stateside", Douglas describes his after-filming activities in Jamaica thus:
"There were beautiful, young (I hate to think how young) copper-colored girls dancing and singing Calypso songs - 'Please, mister, don't touch my tomatoes'. Afterward, I would take them up to my bungalow. I'm glad I never asked them how old they were. I think I should have been in jail."

beatrice14 · 26/11/2021 18:51

still more-
Richard Burton
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/burtons-old-flame...

Allsortsofroses · 27/11/2021 19:11

Why do they do it?
Womwn their age too mature for them?
They can't manipulate them?

"I'm all for girls .... women know too much .... girls.. are a different class".

Snoozer11 · 28/11/2021 17:57

@shiningjustforyou you don't hear about Bowie in these lists though. All the people crying out about other abusers have tattoos of him etc.

I genuinely believe the reason he usually isn't counted in these lists alongside the others in Yewtree is because he wore a bit of glitter on his face.

KimikosNightmare · 28/11/2021 20:18

[quote Snoozer11]@shiningjustforyou you don't hear about Bowie in these lists though. All the people crying out about other abusers have tattoos of him etc.

I genuinely believe the reason he usually isn't counted in these lists alongside the others in Yewtree is because he wore a bit of glitter on his face.[/quote]
That's nonsense.

I'm categorically not a fan of Bowie's. I can understand the artistic achievements but do not enjoy his music at all. And I absolutely hate that every time there's a "men who are sooo gender-non-conforming" thread on here he gets lauded
BUT
almost none of the 1970s/80s exploiters of "groupies" have ever been charged with the exception of Gary Glitter.

The only musician from that era who was, was Roy Harper in 2015 - accusations from decades before. The accusations against Harper were , in my opinion , for what it's worth, very questionable from what was made public. The jury and eventually the CPS agreed and the case was dropped.

So far as the other musicians , the stories about Jimmy Page, Iggy Pop etc, are widely documented in print and the Internet, with names. None of the women have ever complained or sought to have any sanctions taken. It is possible to bring a case to court without the assistance of the victim but the difficulty in doing so without co-operation would realistically make it a non- starter.

shiningjustforyou · 28/11/2021 20:35

[quote Snoozer11]@shiningjustforyou you don't hear about Bowie in these lists though. All the people crying out about other abusers have tattoos of him etc.

I genuinely believe the reason he usually isn't counted in these lists alongside the others in Yewtree is because he wore a bit of glitter on his face.[/quote]
It's rubbish.

NewspaperTaxis · 28/11/2021 21:18

This is a very interesting thread.

There is an argument that the reason the police don't get involved is, well, they are not wholly uninvolved and indeed complicit in grooming gangs themselves, in league with local authorities. See current reports on Sky News about grooming gangs in Hull, apparently with no knowledge or intervention from local Safeguarding teams. I think it was MP Anne Cryer who had to take Pakistani grooming gangs in Rotherham I think to Channel 4 News because she just couldn't get any of the local authorities to deal with it.

You have grooming 'survivor' (she prefers that to 'victim') Sammy Woodhouse dealing with this issue - but guess what, when you've got sleazy Keith Vaz MP, who paid for male prostitutes, in charge of the inquiry, something just might be up. Leicester is a dodgy area, and previous MP Lord Janner had allegations about underage abuse of lads hushed up by Leicester Police. Leicester now has Claudia Webbe MP, she of threatening. perceived love rival with acid in the face, nice town, eh?

Historical allegations of a paedophile ring in Lambeth are now no mere allegations but fact. Still, the dodgy Met police is still involved in a cover up, victims claim. Likewise, allegations of serial killer Levi Bellfield's link to care homes - found out by a Hillingdon social worker - are now in a file with Met police who, guess what, don't seem to want to investigate.

Just as paedos made their way in the Church because it offered a) Secrecy b) Total lack of accountability and c) Access to underage kids, paedos seem to have infiltrated local authorities for the exact same reasons. In fact, it's a bit like saying, Hitler and his mates infiltrated Germany in the 1930s - they kind of did, didn't they?

Savile is an interesting one. I picked up his autobiography of sorts in a Church book sale amongst thousands of others. Flicking through out of interest, thinking 'No way is he going to mention his underage exploits!' I was wrong, he is quite open. He refers to his teenage girls as 'my seductress' - a common term referenced by journalist Christine Patterson in a recent book review about the 1960s which dealt with grooming men. He doesn't quite say they had sex, but that they went back to his caravan and something happened. (Savile's itinerant lifestyle and caravan put him in the driving seat of his situation.) But it's made out to be a funny, sex comedy incident.

I suppose there's a reason why the Met and Surrey Police only seemed to be investigating a paedophile gang that's fictional - Operation Midlands. It seemed a case of misdirection to distract from the fact that their possibly Masonic mate Prince Andrew was linked to paedophile Jeffery Epstein and they weren't investigating. That and the fact that what awfully looks like a local authority paedophile ring across areas such as Telford, Oxford, Rotherham, Rochdale and so on, was breaking into the news around then.

They went for celebrities on the wrong side of the Establishment - Sir Cliff Richard, DJ Paul Gambaccuni, Field Marshall Lord Brammell, Freddie Star, Jim Davidson and so on. 'Right side of the Establishment' would be stars like any ex- Beatle, Rolling Stone, The Who, Duran Duran, Sex Pistols, Spandau Ballet whose public disgrace would reflect poorly upon the general public who idolise many who ironically back in the day were seen as far from role models. (NB Only the Stones and the Who have black marks here.) But those I mention at the beginning of this sentence were all innocent and that could have been proved easily enough, as well as Carl Beech's fantastic claims be disproved. Many seemed they could have committed suicide - Cliff, Starr and Gamby under massive stress it seemed, and had they done so, it would have saved the police legal bills and seemed to have exonerated them as it would be assumed they did it out of guilt. Others were either dead (Edward Heath) or likely to die soon (Leon Britton, who did) and Lord Bramall (who later did, but only after winning a payout and putting the boot in to Surrey Police.)

(I think Jonathan King was another they went after who seems to have been largely wronged.)

Seems fantasist Carl Beech was being used by the police and is now doing 18 years in jail for the fact that his rubbish was strung along by the police for their own reasons. The police in question are all still in their jobs and have been promoted.

What were their reasons? Well, misdirection as I've said, but also perhaps as a warning to the Government who under then Home Secretary Theresa May were looking to sort them out. But she had been warned she was pulling at 'a very long piece of string'. So it proved, within months you may recall, 'Plebgate' occurred and Andrew Mitchell a Cabinet minister was forced to step down after a spat with a police officer, later two others lied about it to fit him up, but he recorded it and exposed them. Years later, a May ally Damian Green was also accused of accessing porn on his House of Commons laptop - the long arm of the law has a very long memory, it seems. It is also extremely vindictive.

Dame Cressida Dick can't be sacked by the Govt because she surely has so much dirt on them, not hard as this seems to be the most corrupt Govt in living memory.

There is a homophobic slant to many of these investigations, it puts one in mind of the copper setting gay men up in public lavatories to get an easy conviction. Because of the misogynistic culture in the police it is likely they see the underage woman as a nice win for any lucky fellow, added to which she may not in fairness see that she is being exploited so it may be hard work to make the case anyway. The bullying of gay men has an inglorious tradition in the police, and they stick with what they know.

MysteriousSoup · 29/11/2021 01:34

@Alieninmybody

I only knew about two of them. Bill Wyman and Mandy Smith astounded me as a teen. She's around my age, how her mother encouraged that is beyond me.
I think Mandy Smiths Mother was in a relationship with Bill Wymans son at one time Hmm
batmanladybird · 29/11/2021 02:08

Dear god I am
Depressed reading this

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