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Feminism: chat

Grooming by “Famous” Men

173 replies

CaveMum · 17/11/2021 09:35

I saw this post on Facebook, posted by the account Women’s Voices Matter and thought it well worth sharing to show how blatant the abuse of young girls by “famous” men is.

Grooming.... let's talk about it:

Let's start back in 1919. Charlie Chaplin, who would become one of the most famous and celebrated movie stars of all time, was 29 when he married 16 year old aspiring actress Mildred Harris. Their marriage only lasted 2 years. In 1924, Chaplin repeated the pattern with another 16 year old, Lita Gray. He met Lita when she was just 6 and began taking her on dates around the age of 12.

1954 -- Sam Cooke meets a 12-year old Aretha Franklin and brings her to his hotel room. Before her father interrupted, Aretha said the conversation "took another turn."

In 1957, 23 year old Jerry Lee Lewis married his cousin, 13 year old Myra Brown. She still believed in Santa.

Also in 1957, 16 year old Anna Mae Bullock met 24 year old Ike Turner. He quickly took her into his band, helped make her a star, and began to treat the newly christened "Tina" as if he owned her. They married 6 years later. Tina once wrote that she was afraid not to accept his proposal.

In 1959, Elvis Presley met his future wife. He was 25 and she was 14. They stayed in touch via phone and letters for the next 2 1/2 years. At that time, Elvis took her on a drug romp to Vegas, followed by moving her into his Graceland mansion. They didn't marry until 1967. While both parties claimed that Priscilla was a virgin on her wedding night, biographer Susan Finstad makes a strong case that this could not be true. Priscilla herself has admitted that she & Elvis slept in the same bed and that Elvis "taught (her) other ways to please him." Elvis reportedly had a predeliction for 14 year old girls, both before and after his marriage to Priscilla.

Chuck Berry was arrested and found guilty of transporting an underage girl across state lines for immoral purposes, spending two years in jail in 1960.

In 1969, Sable Starr, queen of the so-called "baby groupies", had a brief relationship with Iggy Pop. She was 13. He later wrote a song about it. Starr had sexual relationships with many other band members, including encouters with David Bowie, Mick Jagger, and Rod Stewart.

It's 1972 and Rock stars are still having sex with little girls and everyone knows it, but no one does anything about it. Lori Mattix tells of losing her virginity at age 14 to David Bowie. She went on to start "dating" Led Zeppelin's Jimmy Page that same year, a relationsihp that began when Page's manager kidnapped her and brought her to Jimmy's hotel room. Page kept Lori essentially locked up in his house for most of their 18 months together. The "baby groupie" also reports a sexual relationship with Mick Jagger when she was just 17.

In 1973, married singer Marvin Gaye met and pursued 17 year old Janis Hunter. He wrote "Let's Get it On" as a tribute to his lust for her. Marvin took his teen date to dinner shortly after they met, where he bribed the waiter to bring her alcohol, then had sex with her later that night. They had a baby by the time she was 18, and married in 1977. The marriage lasted just 3 years.

In 1975, Steven Tyler purchased the guardianship of a 16 year old girl (Julia Holcomb) from her mother when he was 27 so that he could legally take her with him across state lines while he was on tour.

In 1978, Ted Nugent also purchases the guardianship of a teenager from her parents. He was 30, Pele Massa was 17. Years later, Ted reportedly received oral sex from a 12 year old Courtney Love.

March 10, 1977. One of the most well-known cases. Director Roman Polanski drugs and rapes 13 year old Samantha Gailey. Allowed to plead guilty to a lesser charge, Polanski nevertheless fled to France before sentencing and remains exiled from the United States. He has not been exiled, however, from Hollywood and continues to make movies and win awards to this day.
Eagles drummer and vocalist Don Henley was arrested in 1980 in Los Angeles after paramedics were called to his home to save a naked 16-year-old girl who was overdosing on cocaine and Quaaludes.

Colored over as a a "grand romance" and a "decades long relationship", Celine Dion was 12 years old when 38 year old Rene Angelil became her manager. They went public with their relationship when she was 19.
I
n 1984, Rolling Stones bassist Bill Wyman started dating Mandy Smith. She was 13. Although they did not marry until she was 18, Mandy says she was 14 when they first had sex. Mr. Wyman has never been investigated, much less prosecuted.

Red Hot Chili Peppers' lead Anthony Kiedis readily admits to having sex with a 14 year old girl when he was 23. According to him, once he confirmed her age he "had sex with her again." In 1986, the 24-year old musician began dating 16 year old Ione Skye.

In 1990, 16 year old Mayte Garcia's mother sent a video of her belly-dancing to Prince. He arranged to meet her, confirmed she was 16 and a year later moved her into his house. When she was 19, he initiated a sexual relationshi by informing her it was time to go on birth control. They married when she was 22 and he was 37. Before Mayte, Prince met "Anna Fantastic" when she was 15. At 17, she moved into his compound where they had a two year long relationship.

In 1991, 32 year old director Luc Besson met and eventually married model Maïwenn Le Besco when she was 15. Their relationship inspired his movie Léon: The Professional (1994), which followed an emotional relationship between an adult man and a young girl.

In 1993, Jerry Seinfeld picked up a high school student in a public park. He was 39 and she was 17. He and Shoshanna Lonstein dated for four years -- through her college years.

Also in 1993, MC Ren of N.W.A. was accused of raping and impregnating a 16 year old girl in the group's tour bus. The case never went to trial, however a paternity test showed that he was the father of the girl's baby.

Noted pedophile R Kelley secretly married R&B singer Aaliyah in 1994 when she was 15 and he was 27. They met when she was 12 and he later helped write and produce her first album -- "Age Ain't Nothing but a Number."

In 1995, teen star Brandy (age 16) started dating 21-year-old Boyz II Men member Wanya Morris. Keeping their relationship under wraps due to her age proved too stressful for the couple and they broke up soon after.

In 1997, Woody Allen should have become notorious when he married his de facto step-daughter. Though she was 21 at the time of the wedding, the two met when she 8. No matter the spin, the facts are stark. This wasn't the only time Allen dated a much younger woman. Actress Babi Christina Engelhardt began a years-long love affair with Allen when she was 16 and he was 41. When Allen was 42, he romanced 17-year-old actress and high school senior Stacey Nelkin.

It's the early-mid 2000s and "That 70s Show" actor, Wilmer Valderrama, continues to date teenage girls in an effort to deny that he is now over 30. He dated 16-year-old Mandy Moore despite being four years her senior. At age 24, Valderrama dated 17-year-old Lindsay Lohan though they kept the relationship a secret until her 18th birthday in 2004. In 2010, the 30-year-old began dating 17-year-old Demi Lovato.

In 2001, Fast & Furious star Paul Walker (28 at the time) was dating 16-year old Aubrianna Atwell. This was not Paul's last time to date a teenager. His girlfriend at the time of his death, Jasmine Pilchard-Gosnell, was 23 to his 40. They met when she was 16.

Back in 2004, 26 year old Joel Madden and Hilary Duff did the familiar dance of being "just friends" until her 18th birthday in 2006. When asked about whether she was intimate with Madden or not in a 2015 interview with Cosmopolitan, Duff stated, "I had a 26-year-old boyfriend. So everyone can make their own assumptions about what I was doing."
In 2005, clean cut TV heartthrob Chad Michael Murray begins dating a girl in high school. They get engaged when she turns 18 and Murray calls her a "little sweetheart" and says they have been together "for awhile."

Similarly, in 2006, co-stars Hayden Panettiere and Milo Ventimiglia began dating. She was 17. He was 12 years her senior.

Actor Doug Hutchison married 16-year-old Courtney Stodden in 2011, when he was 51 years old. The dysfunctional pair became famous as reality stars, with Courtney undergoing extensive plastic surgery to maintain their image.

Rapper Tyga and Kylie Jenner began "hanging out" an awful lot beginning in 2014 when she was 16 and he was 24. They dated on and off after that, though they became a lot more openly "on" after her 18th birthday in 2016.

In late 2018, 44 year old Leonardo DiCaprio publicly reveals that he is dating 21 year old model Camilla Morrone. It's not the age gap that puts Leo on our list, it's the fact that he's known Camilla since she was 11.

2018 14 year old Millie Bobby Brown innocently revealed that rapper, Drake, age 31, has been close friends with her, for the last year giving her advice about boys. He texts her, "I miss you." This is the same Drake who has, more than once, skated around that "just friends until she turns 18" line most recently with 18 year old model Bella Harris.

Guys, this isn't a friendship. This is GROOMING. No one will stop it. They'll "date." He'll have sex with her, probably in a couple of years. No one will care because he's a man and a star.

NO ONE WILL CARE UNLESS WE START MAKING PEOPLE CARE.

Make them care. No free passes. No 2nd chances. A ruined career is the least they deserve. It's not cute. THIS IS NOT OK.

~ Verity Violet

OP posts:
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5
Atmywitsend29 · 29/11/2021 02:40

This thread is depressing. Makes me think as well, my mother was 15 and my father 23 when they met.
She was a controlling, manipulate, horrible cow though so I can't reconcile any feelings there. She did, however, constantly talk about how she met him at 15 and that that was what I should aspire to in my life. Meet someone a bit older, ready to settle down, by the time I was 15.
Any wonder when I was 13 my boyfriend was 22, he used to pick me up from school and walk me home.
At 16 I was seeing someone 23.
At 17 I was dating a 29 year old army private.
And felt like a failure when none of these relationships worked out, despite having been repeatedly assaulted by the time I was 18.
At 18 i ended up in a horrifically abusive relationship with someone 2 years older than me.

I don't care for the "it was a different time" argument. There is never an excuse. And those people then have their own daughters or sons who think that it's okay and normal. When it isn't. It never was, it's just we've finally got the right to say so now.

One of my dear friends, her dad cheated on her mum with the 15year old baby sitter. He was pushing 40. Needless to say, she won't leave her own daughters alone with him.

sociallydistained · 30/11/2021 14:41

My friend met a disgusting man in secondary school when she was 15. He was in his 40s! They went on to get married and have three children. I spent a lot of time around them in college because I loved that my friend had her own house but it was awful she had to have his dinner on the table etc and was obviously a very young mum. They got divorced after the third child as apparently he pinned her against a wall by her throat. But he is still in her life in a big way. By all accounts he’s a “good dad” as he is very active in the kids lives so they will all go out as a family still. But I really struggle with memories of my time at their house when I was younger (were both mid 30s now). Lots of sexual remarks etc. How is it allowed to happen? And I think of the three children and the eldest is a 15 year old girl now and how that makes her feel? Ugh

JaneSmith1989 · 30/11/2021 15:14

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Festivfrenzy · 24/08/2023 05:39

CanIPleaseHaveOne · 17/11/2021 22:39

It would be great if all of this was taught in sex ed class wouldn't it? Consent, grooming, manipulation etc.

Omg absolutely!!! Why isn't it?! Most essential element for boys as much as for girls!
This was a sickening and scary read. Feel like it's getting worse too with internet enabling access to all kinds of criminal abuse and normalising it not to mention the rubbish about "age transitioning" or whatever it's called.
Thanks so much for sharing this OP

Festivfrenzy · 24/08/2023 05:46

foxlover47 · 20/11/2021 22:27

In 2010, Smith publicly called for the age of consent in the United Kingdom to be raised from 16 to 18, saying "People will find that odd coming from me. But I think I do know what I'm talking about here. You are still a child—even at 16. You can never get that part of your life, your childhood, back. I never could."[7

She said she got Ill from
Being on birth control
From the age of 14 when she and bill had sex though he said they waited till she was 16
Yeah right

I was just wondering about the age of consent and have to agree - girls and boys this age need protecting from this pressure now more than ever

Festivfrenzy · 24/08/2023 05:51

Silverswirl · 21/11/2021 00:16

Men want younger females. Always have and always will. Hardwired in. Only the thin vaneer of society and what’s acceptable stops most of them.
Clearly the men mentioned above are some of the many many men who don’t even give a shit about that.
Unfortunately it’s on women to protect themselves (and their daughters and other vulnerable women / girls) because this is just how most men are. Underneath. The vaneer may get thicker and what acceptable changes but the core of who and what men are never will.

I do t think most men want under 16 year olds. Even at 16/17 only a minority of girls could be viewed as "womanly" in real life- maybe in a photo you'd think they were older but in real life young girls are clearly young girls not sexually available women and I think most men can see the difference and don't have that interest for obvious children/awkward teenagers.

SequinsandStiIettos · 24/08/2023 19:08

What made you resurrect this thread festiv?
I don't mind particularly - it's a good thread - am just curious.
Am watching Billie Piper now. Am pretty sure Chris Evans's 35 to her 17 1/2 (married at 18 after dating for six months) would be judged nowadays. That said, she's always been very positive about their time together. I suspect he "saved" her from worse experiences (music industry, homelife and the rest).

Littlepinkstarsbyradish · 03/09/2023 02:14

Festivfrenzy · 24/08/2023 05:39

Omg absolutely!!! Why isn't it?! Most essential element for boys as much as for girls!
This was a sickening and scary read. Feel like it's getting worse too with internet enabling access to all kinds of criminal abuse and normalising it not to mention the rubbish about "age transitioning" or whatever it's called.
Thanks so much for sharing this OP

It is taught in schools. At least in any schools doing pshe correctly and following updated guidance

AliasGrace47 · 14/08/2024 02:20

I know this is an old thread but I was reading about Jimmy Webb recently bc MacArthur Park is one of my favourite songs. It's spoilt for me now, after finding out he met his wife Patsy Sullivan when she was 12 and he was 22, on a cover shoot for Teen magazine! They began an 'affair' when she was 13, he got her pregnant at 15, and married her at 16. Her mother was very unhappy and tried to have him indicted for statutory rape. Rolling Stone described it in 1982 as a 'pop fairy tale' ffs. Webb has been careful to hush it up, not mentioning her in his autobio at all. She thinks his next wife is behind this, but also thinks he's worried about being called out about her age.

Omlettes · 19/08/2024 02:34

CaveMum · 17/11/2021 09:44

I’d add my own comment to this as well regarding Woody Allen - let’s not forget the allegations that he sexually abused his own daughter, Dylan. He was never prosecuted (my understanding is that prosecutors and her mother felt she would not cope with a trial) but this does not mean he is not guilty.

When he took Mia to court for custody of their children, not only did the Judge rule in Mia’s favour he described Allen as “self absorbed, untrustworthy, and insensitive”, and that he should be carefully monitored around his children. The Judge also said that “we will probably never know what happened on August 4 1992… [but] Mr Allen’s behaviour towards Dylan was grossly inappropriate and… measures must be taken to protect her.”

You can see excerpts of the court ruling here: www.huffpost.com/entry/heres-the-1993-woody-alle_b_4746866

There’s also an excellent podcast called Real Crime Profile which spent several episodes looking at the evidence against Allen and while you can listen and draw your own conclusions I think it is utterly damning of him.

The podcast also covers other cases of male violence against women and girls including Bill Cosby and R Kelly as well as the murders of Nicole Brown-Simpson and Reeva Steenkamp.

There was Dylans own testimony along with Mias in that heartwrenching documentary she made.
https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2021/feb/21/allen-v-farrow-hbo-documentary-dylan-farrow-woody-allen
I saw it, it was harrowing, and given the nanny Dylans and Mias relaying of events its almost impossible not to believe them.

'It was really an investigation': inside HBO's explosive Allen v Farrow documentary

In a new four-part series, the allegations of sexual abuse aimed at Woody Allen are dissected and examined in exhaustive detail

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2021/feb/21/allen-v-farrow-hbo-documentary-dylan-farrow-woody-allen

NewspaperTaxis · 23/08/2024 10:56

Ronan Farrow's book Catch and Kill about the Weinstein investigation is a brilliant read, it's like a thriller.

Charlize43 · 25/08/2024 00:03

There is a whole US sensationalist media circus thing with the Woody Allen/Farrow case that has really discredited it for me in the end. In a French publication I read how Farrow was paying writers to write stories on Woody and that Ronan was using it to raise his profile for his journalistic career. Wasn't it implied that he was Sinatra's son as Mia hinted that she was still friends with Sinatra around the time he was born? Then out of nowhere one of the other children, Moses, came forward saying that Mia had coached Dylan - which is what was suspected at the time and why Allen was never arrested. A lot of people may not know this, but Farrow's brother is a convicted child molester in jail, and was around Mia when she made the claims, something they've kept very quiet about after he went to jail.

As another poster said, the whole thing is too weird, too Hollywood, too sensationalised, too much of a circus to know what to believe. I think Farrows strategy it is more a case of throw shit and let's see what sticks.

Lastly I don't think the American legal system (or Soon Yi, to think of it) would have allowed Allen to go on and adopt two young daughters if they seriously suspected him of being a child molester, do you?

Still starting a relationship with your girlfriend 21 year old adopted daughter is a pretty immoral thing to do. Allen was 56. So he still deserves to be included in this list. No way am I exonerating him.

XChrome · 25/08/2024 22:48

I am already boycotting most of the kiddie fuckers on this list. I won't listen to their music or watch their movies. The few on this list that I didn't know about will now be boycotted as well.
A lot of people need to do this for it to be effective.

I also boycott anyone who has spoken up on behalf of scum like Woody Allen and Roman Polanski. Fuck them all.

JazbayGrapes · 05/09/2024 15:33

Not to play the devil's advocate, but people have very short memories of how socially acceptable it was in very recent past? Think 90s, early 00s? Not only not criminal, but even desirable for girls as young as 14 to have boyfriends in their 20s. And what did the parents say? All cool, as long as the "boy" wasn't a drunk or a criminal. And if he brought her home on time, because she had school tomorrow. Oh, and there was a widespread notion among many parents that and older boyfriend would be more responsible, protective and respectful than a fellow schoolboy. Now wondering what's responsible and respectful about a 25yo man canoodling with a middle-schooler. But i remember very well...

MoveAhoy · 05/09/2024 17:07

@JazbayGrapes
Teenage pregnancy was so frowned upon, it was a stigma. Girls were supposed to have boyfriends not sex.

Relationships with age gaps were definitely not the rage and are still frowned upon.

The reality vs what tv tried to sell as cool were very different in all the decades you mentioned.

Not sure what you are recollecting or what your point is.

JazbayGrapes · 05/09/2024 19:02

Teenage pregnancy was so frowned upon, it was a stigma. Girls were supposed to have boyfriends not sex.

True that they were supposed to wait for sex. But courtship wasn't seen as grooming. OPs examples from past century of young rockstars and their teenage groupies... today it wouldn't be acceptable, but half a century ago nobody batted an eyelid.

MoveAhoy · 05/09/2024 21:16

I have no idea what type of half a century ago you are talking about. Sounds like a romance novel.

Absolutely everyone knew everyone else's business especially who the girls were hanging out with. Young girls were readily labeled promiscuous and afterwards abandoned to their fate I.e. no one would then bat an eyelid.

I know some parents had started being liberal but it really was not a majority.

picklemewalnuts · 05/09/2024 21:35

I was a teen in the late 80s. I had much older boyfriends and my parents were fine with it, the assumption being that we weren’t having sex. I think also an older boy would pay on dates, drive you around and keep you safe from public transport and random men hitting on you.

We were told that girls mature younger than boys, lads our own age were wet and seemed very young. Girls seemed older.

But I was at a girls’ school. With hindsight, boys made great friends and were perfectly ‘suitable’, but it didn’t feel that way at the time.

It’s odd how different our experiences seem to have been.

NewspaperTaxis · 06/09/2024 16:25

There is something in that, broadly speaking. The older man had a certain cachet, a bit of money saved, a car for instance... It's odd, the teenager back then had consumer cachet and cool, but not actual social cachet, it was something to grow into, a long way off. The older man might have a sort of aura about him whereas the young lad, I mean, what, are you going to get the bus home afterwards?

Lalgarh · 13/09/2024 17:39

I used to be on a music 🎶 publication talk board in the late 90s / early 2000s With a woman who claimed she uh, caught a social disease from Bowie in the 70's so gawd knows what those girls ended up with

Riverlee · 13/09/2024 19:31

I was a teen in eighties, and frequently hung out with people a lot older. No one thought anything of it.

Was on a weekend working party and all the other people we were with were five to twenty years older, all male. There was one female, another u20. This working party occurred more than once. Wouldn’t happen today.

Sinisterdexter · 14/09/2024 08:11

There’s also all the teen girls selected by staff to meet their idol backstage and pressured into having sex.
A client told me of a famous star in the late 60’s, a now old and still active uk singer, who she was taken with her friend to meet. When the door opened the ‘star’ was shagging a girl from behind, she looked about 15 and the singer joked who’s next?
The client told me that they fled and she never liked him again.

Lalgarh · 14/09/2024 10:35

I used to read the NME ages ago. They had a report on teen boy bands, their teenage girl fans and the general scene.

Also how some mum's were involved in engineering their daughters to meet with various boy band members. With New Kids On The Block, there was supposed to be a mother who was trying to get her daughter to specifically zero in on Donnie to sleep with him, as he was the least attractive one so would have less competition

Sinisterdexter · 14/09/2024 11:15

beatrice14 · 25/11/2021 19:48

Melanie Griffith and Frank Sinatra
askinglot.com/how-old-is-melanie-griffith-and...
Mariel Hemingway and Woody Allen
Mariel Hemingway Says Woody Allen Tried to Seduce Her When She Was a Teenager – vanity fair
Judy Garland and Spencer Tracy
SPENCER TRACY - A nightmare of a man. ⋆ Historian Alan Royle
Brigitte Bardot and Roger Vadim
www.grunge.com/644253/brigitte-bardots-tragic...
Mia Farrow and Frank Sinatra
thisrecording.com/today/2011/10/19/in-which-mia-farrow...
Carrie Fisher and several
titra24.com/english/carrie-fisher-said-38-year.
www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-5879965
Elizabeth Taylor and several men
www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3276713
Robert and Clara Schumann -he was nineteen and she nine when they first met
Emanuelle Seigner
www.imetpolanski.com
By his own admission, Polanski has always been drawn to girls in their teens. He met his current wife, Emmanuelle Seigner, when she was 19 and he was 52. In his autobiography, Roman, he speaks candidly of going to bed with 15-year-old girls as a grown man.
Kirk Douglas, in his autobiography the Ragman's son, he writes:
In Chapter 12 "Israel", Douglas meets General Moshe Dayan and his family, including his "precocious" TWELVE year-old daughter, Ya'el. The following paragraph is reproduced in full:
"Ya'el was a very bright girl, sexy even at that young age. Jokingly, I said, 'Listen, Ya'el, here's a dime. When you get to be seventeen or eighteen, if you're around Hollywood, call me.' Sure enough, about five or six years later, I got a call in Los Angeles. It was Ya'el Dayan. 'Well, here I am.' Israelis are amazing people."

*In Chapter 19 "Stateside", Douglas describes his after-filming activities in Jamaica thus:
"There were beautiful, young (I hate to think how young) copper-colored girls dancing and singing Calypso songs - 'Please, mister, don't touch my tomatoes'. Afterward, I would take them up to my bungalow. I'm glad I never asked them how old they were. I think I should have been in jail."

Kirk Douglas is said to have raped Natalie Wood so badly that she was physically injured.

Grooming by “Famous” Men
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