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Feminism: chat

Grooming by “Famous” Men

173 replies

CaveMum · 17/11/2021 09:35

I saw this post on Facebook, posted by the account Women’s Voices Matter and thought it well worth sharing to show how blatant the abuse of young girls by “famous” men is.

Grooming.... let's talk about it:

Let's start back in 1919. Charlie Chaplin, who would become one of the most famous and celebrated movie stars of all time, was 29 when he married 16 year old aspiring actress Mildred Harris. Their marriage only lasted 2 years. In 1924, Chaplin repeated the pattern with another 16 year old, Lita Gray. He met Lita when she was just 6 and began taking her on dates around the age of 12.

1954 -- Sam Cooke meets a 12-year old Aretha Franklin and brings her to his hotel room. Before her father interrupted, Aretha said the conversation "took another turn."

In 1957, 23 year old Jerry Lee Lewis married his cousin, 13 year old Myra Brown. She still believed in Santa.

Also in 1957, 16 year old Anna Mae Bullock met 24 year old Ike Turner. He quickly took her into his band, helped make her a star, and began to treat the newly christened "Tina" as if he owned her. They married 6 years later. Tina once wrote that she was afraid not to accept his proposal.

In 1959, Elvis Presley met his future wife. He was 25 and she was 14. They stayed in touch via phone and letters for the next 2 1/2 years. At that time, Elvis took her on a drug romp to Vegas, followed by moving her into his Graceland mansion. They didn't marry until 1967. While both parties claimed that Priscilla was a virgin on her wedding night, biographer Susan Finstad makes a strong case that this could not be true. Priscilla herself has admitted that she & Elvis slept in the same bed and that Elvis "taught (her) other ways to please him." Elvis reportedly had a predeliction for 14 year old girls, both before and after his marriage to Priscilla.

Chuck Berry was arrested and found guilty of transporting an underage girl across state lines for immoral purposes, spending two years in jail in 1960.

In 1969, Sable Starr, queen of the so-called "baby groupies", had a brief relationship with Iggy Pop. She was 13. He later wrote a song about it. Starr had sexual relationships with many other band members, including encouters with David Bowie, Mick Jagger, and Rod Stewart.

It's 1972 and Rock stars are still having sex with little girls and everyone knows it, but no one does anything about it. Lori Mattix tells of losing her virginity at age 14 to David Bowie. She went on to start "dating" Led Zeppelin's Jimmy Page that same year, a relationsihp that began when Page's manager kidnapped her and brought her to Jimmy's hotel room. Page kept Lori essentially locked up in his house for most of their 18 months together. The "baby groupie" also reports a sexual relationship with Mick Jagger when she was just 17.

In 1973, married singer Marvin Gaye met and pursued 17 year old Janis Hunter. He wrote "Let's Get it On" as a tribute to his lust for her. Marvin took his teen date to dinner shortly after they met, where he bribed the waiter to bring her alcohol, then had sex with her later that night. They had a baby by the time she was 18, and married in 1977. The marriage lasted just 3 years.

In 1975, Steven Tyler purchased the guardianship of a 16 year old girl (Julia Holcomb) from her mother when he was 27 so that he could legally take her with him across state lines while he was on tour.

In 1978, Ted Nugent also purchases the guardianship of a teenager from her parents. He was 30, Pele Massa was 17. Years later, Ted reportedly received oral sex from a 12 year old Courtney Love.

March 10, 1977. One of the most well-known cases. Director Roman Polanski drugs and rapes 13 year old Samantha Gailey. Allowed to plead guilty to a lesser charge, Polanski nevertheless fled to France before sentencing and remains exiled from the United States. He has not been exiled, however, from Hollywood and continues to make movies and win awards to this day.
Eagles drummer and vocalist Don Henley was arrested in 1980 in Los Angeles after paramedics were called to his home to save a naked 16-year-old girl who was overdosing on cocaine and Quaaludes.

Colored over as a a "grand romance" and a "decades long relationship", Celine Dion was 12 years old when 38 year old Rene Angelil became her manager. They went public with their relationship when she was 19.
I
n 1984, Rolling Stones bassist Bill Wyman started dating Mandy Smith. She was 13. Although they did not marry until she was 18, Mandy says she was 14 when they first had sex. Mr. Wyman has never been investigated, much less prosecuted.

Red Hot Chili Peppers' lead Anthony Kiedis readily admits to having sex with a 14 year old girl when he was 23. According to him, once he confirmed her age he "had sex with her again." In 1986, the 24-year old musician began dating 16 year old Ione Skye.

In 1990, 16 year old Mayte Garcia's mother sent a video of her belly-dancing to Prince. He arranged to meet her, confirmed she was 16 and a year later moved her into his house. When she was 19, he initiated a sexual relationshi by informing her it was time to go on birth control. They married when she was 22 and he was 37. Before Mayte, Prince met "Anna Fantastic" when she was 15. At 17, she moved into his compound where they had a two year long relationship.

In 1991, 32 year old director Luc Besson met and eventually married model Maïwenn Le Besco when she was 15. Their relationship inspired his movie Léon: The Professional (1994), which followed an emotional relationship between an adult man and a young girl.

In 1993, Jerry Seinfeld picked up a high school student in a public park. He was 39 and she was 17. He and Shoshanna Lonstein dated for four years -- through her college years.

Also in 1993, MC Ren of N.W.A. was accused of raping and impregnating a 16 year old girl in the group's tour bus. The case never went to trial, however a paternity test showed that he was the father of the girl's baby.

Noted pedophile R Kelley secretly married R&B singer Aaliyah in 1994 when she was 15 and he was 27. They met when she was 12 and he later helped write and produce her first album -- "Age Ain't Nothing but a Number."

In 1995, teen star Brandy (age 16) started dating 21-year-old Boyz II Men member Wanya Morris. Keeping their relationship under wraps due to her age proved too stressful for the couple and they broke up soon after.

In 1997, Woody Allen should have become notorious when he married his de facto step-daughter. Though she was 21 at the time of the wedding, the two met when she 8. No matter the spin, the facts are stark. This wasn't the only time Allen dated a much younger woman. Actress Babi Christina Engelhardt began a years-long love affair with Allen when she was 16 and he was 41. When Allen was 42, he romanced 17-year-old actress and high school senior Stacey Nelkin.

It's the early-mid 2000s and "That 70s Show" actor, Wilmer Valderrama, continues to date teenage girls in an effort to deny that he is now over 30. He dated 16-year-old Mandy Moore despite being four years her senior. At age 24, Valderrama dated 17-year-old Lindsay Lohan though they kept the relationship a secret until her 18th birthday in 2004. In 2010, the 30-year-old began dating 17-year-old Demi Lovato.

In 2001, Fast & Furious star Paul Walker (28 at the time) was dating 16-year old Aubrianna Atwell. This was not Paul's last time to date a teenager. His girlfriend at the time of his death, Jasmine Pilchard-Gosnell, was 23 to his 40. They met when she was 16.

Back in 2004, 26 year old Joel Madden and Hilary Duff did the familiar dance of being "just friends" until her 18th birthday in 2006. When asked about whether she was intimate with Madden or not in a 2015 interview with Cosmopolitan, Duff stated, "I had a 26-year-old boyfriend. So everyone can make their own assumptions about what I was doing."
In 2005, clean cut TV heartthrob Chad Michael Murray begins dating a girl in high school. They get engaged when she turns 18 and Murray calls her a "little sweetheart" and says they have been together "for awhile."

Similarly, in 2006, co-stars Hayden Panettiere and Milo Ventimiglia began dating. She was 17. He was 12 years her senior.

Actor Doug Hutchison married 16-year-old Courtney Stodden in 2011, when he was 51 years old. The dysfunctional pair became famous as reality stars, with Courtney undergoing extensive plastic surgery to maintain their image.

Rapper Tyga and Kylie Jenner began "hanging out" an awful lot beginning in 2014 when she was 16 and he was 24. They dated on and off after that, though they became a lot more openly "on" after her 18th birthday in 2016.

In late 2018, 44 year old Leonardo DiCaprio publicly reveals that he is dating 21 year old model Camilla Morrone. It's not the age gap that puts Leo on our list, it's the fact that he's known Camilla since she was 11.

2018 14 year old Millie Bobby Brown innocently revealed that rapper, Drake, age 31, has been close friends with her, for the last year giving her advice about boys. He texts her, "I miss you." This is the same Drake who has, more than once, skated around that "just friends until she turns 18" line most recently with 18 year old model Bella Harris.

Guys, this isn't a friendship. This is GROOMING. No one will stop it. They'll "date." He'll have sex with her, probably in a couple of years. No one will care because he's a man and a star.

NO ONE WILL CARE UNLESS WE START MAKING PEOPLE CARE.

Make them care. No free passes. No 2nd chances. A ruined career is the least they deserve. It's not cute. THIS IS NOT OK.

~ Verity Violet

OP posts:
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shiningjustforyou · 21/11/2021 05:59

@Riverlee

The age differences in that list is shocking.

A five year difference isn’t so bad - I went out with someone who was eight years older than me when I was 17.

I had relationships with older men too that at the time I thought were mature and healthy. They weren't though, how could they ever be?

It's not healthy for a 25/26 year old man to be dating a teenager. It just isn't.

Lots of people will have stories about themselves, friends, parents etc and these age gap relationships that have lasted 40 years.

Great, congratulations. Let's not pretend though that the beginning of that was still not ok.
15/16/17 year old girls are too young and immature to be in relationships with men in their 20s and I seriously question the motivation of any of these men.

If I'd stayed with the man who was 10 years older than me it wouldn't have validated or excused that he thought it was ok to go out with a 15 year old girl, have sex with her, take her to pubs and parties etc

The argument that girls mature quicker than boys and they're much more emotionally equipped is all part of the manipulation and gaslighting that we all fell for, along with 'it was different back then'.

No it wasn't. We still had consent laws, children were still children.

When John Peel had girls queueing up to give him blow jobs in the US, he argued it was legal as they were above the age of consent there. So what!
He was British and he knew the age of consent here so it doesn't wash. That just makes him a sex tourist. Just because you can do something, it doesn't mean you should.

I would be all for consent to be raised to 18.

Tomatalillo · 21/11/2021 06:20

Truly awful to read.

Another version of the ‘sacred castes’. Rock god and pop stars that managed to be heroes and above the law. Sickeningly it seems they were heroes to many men in part because they were living this lifestyle. That’s why they weren’t brought down.

Almostwelsh · 21/11/2021 09:52

It is annoying to say so, but not having an involved father seems to make girls more vulnerable to advances by older men. Not only do they lack a good example of an older man in their family, but men do seem more cautious around girls who have an involved father.

I see many people blaming the girls mother, but a father who abandons his daughter to these predators is equally to blame.

LakesideView · 21/11/2021 12:05

Zach Braff is another to add to the list. He dated Mandy Moore when she was 20 and he was 29…significant age gap but maybe not too creepy. But he’s now dating Florence Pugh, he is 46, she is 25…nothing illegal but huge age difference. Makes me cringe.

sociallydistained · 21/11/2021 12:08

Depressing. Men are disgusting.

ThisIsStartingToBoreMe · 21/11/2021 12:38

@Alieninmybody

I only knew about two of them. Bill Wyman and Mandy Smith astounded me as a teen. She's around my age, how her mother encouraged that is beyond me.
Yeah the wyman/smith one is particularly sad, given the behaviour of her mother.

And the grossest of all is Woody Allen. I've boycotted all his films since.

Marmelace · 21/11/2021 12:48

Isn't Piers Morgan friends with Wyman?

Amdone123 · 21/11/2021 13:00

@Almostwelsh, great point. I didn't even think about the whereabouts of Mandy's dad in all of this. Shame on me. Mum obviously to blame but yes, where was dad?

KimikosNightmare · 21/11/2021 14:44

[quote Amdone123]@Almostwelsh, great point. I didn't even think about the whereabouts of Mandy's dad in all of this. Shame on me. Mum obviously to blame but yes, where was dad?[/quote]
This Daily Mail article from 2010 briefly touches on that.

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1266664/Mandy-Smith-I-DID-sleep-Bill-Wyman-I-14--man-life-God.html

LondonWolf · 21/11/2021 14:52

I was a 14 year old with a paper round when Mandy Smith married Bill Wyman. I read the papers every day. I remember thinking he’s only marrying her so it doesn’t look so bad and to do damage limitation. I, at 14 years old knew that and I don’t think I was a particularly cynical teen. The adults round her knew it was wrong of course they did. Including her mother.

Amdone123 · 21/11/2021 15:16

@LondonWolf, weird you say that. I think that was probably my take on it, too. In our day, we were probably conditioned to think getting a man and marrying him was a good goal. Didn't matter what we wanted?

I'm encouraged by a pp who says her 15 year old and peers baulk at the idea of a mid 20s man being attracted to them. How times change. And they do, thank god.
A time that sticks in my mind is when a friend and I were babysitting. We were about 15. Her older bf turned up and was trying to get her to go upstairs. I can't remember how old he was - I know he drove - so an adult. She didn't want to go upstairs and I remember speaking up for her, saying she doesn't want to. I can remember as clear as day his reply, ' No, because she knows what she'll get'. I remember fuming at him and throwing him out. This was 40 years ago yet I still knew it wasn't right. My friend and I drifted apart ( I was quite vocal for a teen. Had endless arguments with my dad and brother regarding womens' rights, terrorism etc). Often ended in world war 3.
Another aspect that's been raised here - let's teach girls from an early age. My granddaughter is 6 and of course I adore her, but I will say, Can Nana have a kiss?' Sometimes she wants 1, sometimes she doesn't. And it is then, I seize my moment to tell her that's OK - it's your body, if you don't want anyone to touch you, that it's ok to say no.
I remember uncles poring over me, yuck, horrible, slimy kisses and gropes.

shiningjustforyou · 21/11/2021 16:18

@Amdone123 yes it makes me furious when I see people still trying to force kids to kiss/hug them. We have to teach children to have ownership over their bodies at all times. I remember as a shy child being forced to hug and kiss relatives and it's gross.

Libertaire · 21/11/2021 16:38

We should be cautious about applying today’s social & cultural norms to previous eras when attitudes were different. I grew up in the 1980s and when I was 15-18 many girls my age had left school and started work. They had boyfriends in their 20s who had jobs, money & cars. They simply were not interested in ‘immature’ boys their own age, and this was considered perfectly normal. Teenage pregnancy was depressingly common.

Today, things are very different. Girls that age are still in FT education, are still financially dependent on their parents and are treated as children. Times change.

Amdone123 · 21/11/2021 16:49

@shiningjustforyou, absolutely. I also remember a member of the family getting close to me. I was about 14. I told my mum and dad, and my cousin. It was disregarded. He was actually imprisoned soon after for , I think, drug / fraud charges.
She's still with him.

SequinsandStiIettos · 21/11/2021 16:54

You can add Kim Fowley to that list. A predatory groomer of the vulnerable/rapist.
highline.huffingtonpost.com/articles/en/the-lost-girls/

RainLol · 21/11/2021 17:34

@LakesideView

Zach Braff is another to add to the list. He dated Mandy Moore when she was 20 and he was 29…significant age gap but maybe not too creepy. But he’s now dating Florence Pugh, he is 46, she is 25…nothing illegal but huge age difference. Makes me cringe.
pbs.twimg.com/media/ESUsXysUUAIuj7P.jpg

Also, Zach and Frolence’s dad looks alike…..

SequinsandStiIettos · 21/11/2021 19:25

In fairness, 24 is old enough to make an informed decision - don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want a 21 year old age gap for my daughter but they met in a film he directed iirc (second link). The fact that she is already in her 20s is somewhat different from being groomed or meeting a partner when you were under 16.
She makes it clear from 1.36 where she stands on it.

Film was made 2019 so 22/23 when met? It depends on how much you view a director as being in a position of power. If Zach Braff is a concern then the same applies to Sam Taylor-Johnson - Aaron Johnson was only 18 when she was 42. I wouldn't want that age gap for my son either. She, however, is an outlier - from the OP's list we can see that primarily it is men, who seek a partner decades younger.
anothereee · 21/11/2021 21:14

Zach Braff is probably the least problematic of these toxic individuals.

Kim Fowley - the article made me feel totally sick. How do men become this dangerous and evil?

CaveMum · 21/11/2021 21:22

Thanks for your comments. As I said in the OP it’s not my list, so I can’t take credit for it and of course apologise if there are inaccuracies in it.

Re the “it was different back then” argument, I’m not sure I buy that. Yes of course 500 years ago it was very normal for 12/13 year old girls to marry and become mothers, but the average life expectancy was probably about 40 back then! For me there is no excuse for anything like this in the last 100 or so years.

OP posts:
CaveMum · 21/11/2021 21:33

Oh and to add another to the list - Mahatma Ghandi.

After his wife died he took to sleeping in the same bed as young, naked women (including his grand nieces who were 60 years his junior) to prove his celibacy for about 18 months during 1946/1947.

Now I’m sorry but that’s just creepy and, to my mind, controlling. There’s no evidence he had sex with any of them but it is still using his undoubted power over his followers to control their behaviour.

OP posts:
KimikosNightmare · 21/11/2021 23:42

@anothereee

Zach Braff is probably the least problematic of these toxic individuals.

Kim Fowley - the article made me feel totally sick. How do men become this dangerous and evil?

Yes, I think including Zach Braff for criticism for dating a 20 year old when he was 29 is unfair. Mandy Moore wasn't a star struck underage girl- she had her own career by then.

So far as Florence Pugh, yes it's a big age gap but Pugh is a very successful actress who strikes me as very strong and determined and tbh I think it's no-one's business but hers and Braff.

KimikosNightmare · 22/11/2021 00:21

and Braf's

Fluffymule · 22/11/2021 00:42

Currently there's that Scott fella that has 3 kids with one of the Kardashian women.

He's nearly 40 and for the past few years has been dating teenage girls like Sofia Richie who was 15 years younger than him at the time. He moved on from her to Amelia Hamlin who was 18 years younger than him at the time and also still a teenager.

NoNotMeNoSiree · 22/11/2021 01:14

@foxlover47

I read Mandy smiths autobiography when it came out back in the day and I have never ever understood how bill wyman was never prosecuted
Came here to say this. I haven't read her autobiography but I remember being young myself and seeing her on the news/in magazines with him and even as a kid thinking it weird as hell and creepy! Never understood how he got away with it, it was just reported as normal, and she was just painted as a "party girl" - FOURTEEN!! It's utterly sick.
LakesideView · 22/11/2021 07:33

Okay, I concede it’s different. I knew someone in a similar age gap relationship but she was incredibly naïve (quite child like, still collected soft toys for example) and in those circumstances it felt like she was groomed. It was concerning and maybe I was projecting…

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