Do I have PND? Or just a baby? And are there ways of coping without drugs.

[twocatsonthebed]

So, here I am, dd 4.5 months, me physically recovered, if a bit stout. Nothing's that bad, but nothing's that great either. I'm tired, no, exhausted, utterly without energy, and can cry at the drop of a hat (as well as shout at DH for no good reason). I don't really feel like myself at all - I'm usually energetic and fantastically cheerful.

And there's no reason for me to feel like this. I'm blessed with a baby who sleeps, and a dh who works from home and is a fantastic support, so I feel as though I have no excuse at all. And to all appearances, I'm coping fine: getting dressed every day, cooking dinner, talking to people, getting out and about and so on. So I think I'd get pretty short shrift from the HV (not that she's very interested in me anyway, and it's an open clinic) or the doctor.

So, is this PND, or just the normal fabric of life with a baby? And, given that no dr is likely to prescribe me ADs, what can I do to make myself feel better? I am trying to go for a walk most days, do some gardening, but what else?

Hello just wanted to keep this bumped for you so that someone with more knowledge comes along. I have not had PND so really wouldn't like to say. I did find that I was very hormonal when DS was about the age of your DD, I cried ALL the time, I picked fights with DH, but this was mainly (I think) because I was exhausted as DS slept badly at night, and I could only get him to sleep well in the day if I took him for a walk and kept walking for two hours.... plus i had just stopped breastfeeding which didn't help.

I hope you start feeling better and that someone else will come along soon to help out on this thread!

It doesn't sound quite normal to me and I would get it checked. In particular, the tiredness sounds odd if your baby sleeps. I have heard that some women develop thyrid problems after having a baby, which might be worth looking into.
I found that when I was on maternity leave I was spending too much time alone, and it was a grind, so I became more emotional and prone to crying (going back to work put paid to that), but it was not exactly crying "at the drop of a hat". I do think you should raise it with the HV/GP - even though I don't think you sound depressed.
To make yourself feel better, the only things I can think of are exercising and cutting out alcohol or caffeine. I hope you feel better soon.

BTW, Edie is very cute, twocats.

Hello. I think you're at that hard bit when you're over the euphoria of the birth and having come through it but you're not quite used yet to being a mother and having a baby and anyway, they don't DO much at this age and it can all be a bit boring ime at this age.

Being tired is normal, crying is pretty normal (your hormones aren't completely back to normal for 2 yrs iirc) so maybe you're a bit of a borderlne case for pnd, as I was?

I had mild pnd after my first child and my dr prescribed St Johns Wort, which helped a bit. I was a bit tired and stuff but a lot of the time felt I was going through the motions, I wasn't that interested in anything. There's a school of thought that mild depresssion is a perfectly rational response to being a new parent if you are inadequately supported/prepared for being one. I had never even held a baby before having my own so it was all a huge shock to me and I really think it contributed to my depression.

When you say your baby sleeps, hwo much? I think being knackered affects EVERYTHING. Actually, no, I KNOW being knackered affects everything. And you're not used to being a parent yet and I think it can take time.

I'd suggest:
Getting to some baby groups to meet some mothers near you with babies the same ages. This is for YOU not your baby. Social isolation is a contributory factor to pnd and it certainly affcted me not knowing any mothers when I was first a new mother.

Eating healthily and well, exercising a but (so the walking is good)

Seeing friends/doing some social things/going out and doing some things just for you, not for anyone else, so seeing a film or something

Making sure you and your partner spend some time together too

Maybe going back to work if that's what you want.

Thankyou, it sort of sounds normal-ish then. WIll perhaps concentrate on more walking, better diet, and go and ask the doctor about my thyroid.

I don't think it helps that I haven't yet found anyone locally who I've really clicked with, so, even though I've got dh at home, I'm still feeling a bit isolated.

And thankyou plibble! We think so too!

And I see you used to be a tv producer which means you probably enjoyed your job and stuff and being at home with a baby is probably a huge change. I was a sahm first time round but went back to work when my second was 4 months old and loved the freedom of it.

I do think you should be kind to yourself too, it takes time to get 'yourself' back when you have a baby, especially your first. IME anyway.

cross posts www! (Even though I sound as though I was replying to you about the groups). But 'going through the motions' is a very good description of what it feels like. Am intereested that you took St Johns Wort - were you breastfeeding? And did it help?

And there are some good thoughts there, I've been meaning to book myself a massage and a haircut for ages now, so must do that.

I don't know about work - in some ways that is part of the problem. I will have to do something, at some point (although not for a year or more if I don't want to). But I'd got pretty fed up with what I was doing, and need a career change. But trying to think about that now just fries what little is left of my brain.

I used to like my job - but I don't want to be running around the country, taking phone calls on Sundays working to 11pm any more. And there are fewer and fewer programmes I want to work on now. But I do miss the people; it's a very social job - you're meeting people all the time, not just the people you work with but all sorts of experts and contributors and so on.

And we moved out of London 6 months before I got pregnant, so I am a bit short of a social network here, even with the NCT and so on.

Well, I think the St John's Wort worked although who knows? It could just be that I got used to parenthood/met some mum friends locally/lost some weight/blah blah. I wasn't breastfeeding, no idea whether you could with it or not.

I found it very difficult to talk to anyone at the time about anything and I was fairly morbid too and I think both were part of my borderline pnd really. I was a hard partying, hard working late twenty something with a well paid job in a large media co in London when I accidentally got pregnant with ds and it was all a huge shock and lifestyle change. Looking back I think I was in shock for about a year.

And it was before mumsnet, which would have massively helped I think!

I think you need a plan to

a) meet some good people near you (mumsnet meets?)
b) Go and do stuff for you and with your dh
c) consider work options. Could you freelance as a temp measure? You might find that work is what you need. (Might not too of course).

Yes, and the morbid thoughts thing is also there too - it sounds very similar. I think I would have also been in shock had I got pregnant in my hard-partying, work-fixated late twenties/early thirties, I've just had a bit longer to get sick of tv, and London.

Can't argue with any of your plan; mumsnetters are a bit thin on the ground where I am (with the exception of the 3 days of Glastonbury, I think!), but there are other ways of meeting people. And I probably could do a bit of freelanced work for my old company, which means finding a bit of childcare for one or two mornings a week. Which I will set to work on after Easter.

Have you gone back to work full-time? And to the same thing?

Hello twocats. Checking back in again. Just to add after reading other posts that I did find going out and seeing friends truly kept me sane. I was v fortunate in that I got on really well with the girls from my nct ante natal group, so we all met up each week, and we have all agreed that it really helped through the groundhog day months.

I take DS swimming and to a music workshop thing (just fun not learning violin or anything) and so you meet lots of mums with similar age babies. It forces you to go out and do these things too as you have paid for them!!!

2cats, ds is 9.5 yr old now and I was a sahm until he went to school at 5yo, with the exception of some contract work I did via contacts while I was still in London.

With dd I went back to work ft (as a contractor) when she was 4 months old - she was born in 2003 and dh was a sahd for a year. And apart from a stint when I couldn't find any work I've worked ft oth since (I'm on leave this week).

I've just negotiated conmpressed hours so I do 35 hrs/week in 4 days, therefore get a ft salary and benefits. I know 100% that I don't want to be a sahp any mroe but I do like my 1 day a week with dd. So for me it's the best of all worlds.

BELE, yes must meet some more people - have met lots of nice ones, but it all feels a bit like the first week of university, I'm feel that I can only say very innocuous things, just in case people don't agree. And it's not like Mumsnet out there in the real world, I'm the only one with cloth nappies, who's not weaning until 6 months, etc etc etc.

WWW - the compressed hours sounds perfect. Writing about it here has made me realise how much work is part of the problem for me; I feel a bit trapped, partly because I know I don't want to go back to tv, and it would be very difficult even if I did want to. Something will turn up though (I do genuinely believe this when I am not knackered

twocats, I'm a bit "on the edge", which is what you sound to me. I have 3 DCs and no.3 is 4 months. Haven't read other posts so probably repeating but the euphoria/hormones that keep you going through the early days have worn off and reality has set in I take Vitamin B complex for energy, Magnesium supplement to avoid depression and Spatone iron supplement - this really helps when I'm feeling knackered, which is most of the time. DD2 sleeps really well so like you I shouldn't really have any complaints in that respect. Get out as much as you can. Sometimes I just get bored.

Yes I know what you mean, you always feel like you are being judged for having an opinion that might differ from someone else's. It's fine if you know people already but it's especially hard if you meet a group who all already know each other.

When I look back I wonder why I found life so hard, but at the time I found it incredibly difficult. If DS cried in the day, I would ring DH at work in tears saying "he's crying AGAIN". Of course babies cry, but I just found it too much sometimes because I was soooooo tired.

Mine was definitely not work related - I NEVER wanted to go back!!!

Anyway, hopefully the good advice from the others on here is helping already .

Reading through this again, I recall that my DD was about this age when I started to lose the plot a bit - was too introverted, spending too much time alone, spent too much time worrying about things that don't matter etc. I couldn't do the meeting other mothers thing - am in London and there are lots of others about, but I never had anything in common with them other than having had babies and it made those meetings rather awkward. And I am the first of my friends to have a baby. Also it was November and getting dark and miserable; I felt trapped too.

When that happened I got DD started at nursery one day a week to give me some time to myself (my DH works away and otherwise I would never have left the house alone) and arranged to go back to work (from a few months later, but at least my return date was agreed). It may not be the cure for you, but it was really helpful for me to know that I was going to have some outside interests again from a set date...

so, four months is when it kicks in and I am not a complete freak. That in itself is good to hear.

castles - 'on the edge' is it exactly. As is, 'and sometimes I just get bored'. I have some vit B complex in the cupboard, will give it a go...

plibble, yes, I will definitely try and get someone to come in for a couple of mornings a week, as I should be able to get a bit of freelance work. I wasn't planning to go back for a bit, but the general opinion seems to be that it helps.

and so BELE, yes it is helping already. Am also going to go to the doctor and get my thyroid checked, see if that helps.

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Jetjets - no, what you said was really useful (and I had a look at your thread too). How are you feeling at the moment? Do you feel able to cope with the down moments better now? I will try and CAT you, but it may not be for a few days as we have people staying, and I don't have much time on the computer.

I did go to the GP though, and they're going to do a blood test next week, plus there is another GP who specialises in this sort of thing, so I will go and talk to her if the blood test doesn't show anything. (But I don't think that either they or the HV would pick up on anything as I'm pretty good at looking like I am coping. Which makes even me a bit unsure as to whether I am coping or not; if I'm not weeping into the sofa in my pyjamas, I must be ok surely).

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Sorry have been busy as anything over Easter - with some good days and some bad ones.

Oddly, it's the good day which has made me decide that I am definitely going to shout for some treatment. It made me realise how much better I am with dd when I am cheerful, and I don't want her to have the same thing as me (my mother had terrible PND which may well be something to do with how I am feeling now). It's also made me realise that I was probably depressed all the way through my pregnancy.

But have restarted my diary too (left neglected since I got pregnant), will try and get a drs appointment for tomorrow, and if that doesn't work will also try and get some counselling privately. I really don't want this to drag on, it's no fun for anyone else I live with, and could have repercussions for a long long time,

Hello twocats, I just wanted to add my support as I am in an incredibly similar situation to you. My daughter (same name as yours btw, good taste ) is also 4.5 months, and quite high maintenance - ie she cries/squawks/shrieks quite a lot, and I do find it hard to get much done. Tricky as I'm supposed to be working from home, but with minimal childcare. For minimal, read virtually none as I'm relying on my mother to help when she can at the moment.
Anyway, like you, I do sometimes feel a bit kind of flat and 'is that it?'ish about the whole thing; truth is, it can be boring at times looking after a small baby. Even though I'm in London near many friends/family, I don't drive, so getting about is a hassle. plus I feel guilty trying to work whenever I get a moment, and am trying not to transfer the stress onto the baby. I don't know about you, but for me not having one single decent night's sleep has been the real killer. I absolutely adore dd, but wish I was more like my old self somehow - it would be more fun for me and her.
I'm not moaning about my situation per se, just saying it's a huge shock to the system, having a baby... and the whole lifestyle changes that go with it can knock you for six.
However, warm weather helps, having a baby born in the dark days of November was pretty grim.
I have twocats too, and am not that far off 40... are you sure you're not me?

Blimey, you poor thing if you are trying to work too - I think that must just make it impossible to relax, like having perpetual homework. I'm starting to learn that I need to take time for myself - rather than racing around like a banshee whenever she sleeps in order to get dinner on/tidy up etc - and so now when she has her first nap I am trying to write my diary, do my exercises and so on. What do you do?

And yes, I'm obviously just the version of you that made the move out of London... Whereabouts in London are you?