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Brexit

Westminstenders: Game On?

975 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/08/2019 21:35

Johnson has had prorogation approved by the Queen.

There has been widespread outrage and horror both in the UK and in Europe. Johnson has ripped up the principle of Liberal democracy even if constitutionally what he has done is legal. In shredding convention and the 'gentlemans agreement' of understanding we teeter on the edge of democratic collapse.

Talk is tha Dominic Cummings is persuing a game theory principle of deliberately putting us on collision course with the EU. The idea being that they will blink first because the alternative of what will happen is just too awful for them to allow. The idea is to force others to make the moves whilst Johnson appears principled and strong, even without a proper strategy and plan for a deal.

And there is the rub. Despite all the Talk of no deal, at some point a deal MUST be made, regardless of whether its before or after 31st October. There is no sense of what that could be and how it could be done. And then there's the prospect of a US deal which suffers from the same lack of tangibility.

All there is, is how things look for a General Election. Nothing else.

Johnson is pitching for an election with no sense of what's needed for Brexit - including the legislation needed for no deal. Not to forget that Cummings, strategist that he is, apparently isn't here for the long haul, only being contracted until 31st October, when he goes for surgery he postponed to take on this job.

So what's the plan for Johnson Post Cummings? Or is he going to do even more 'winging it'.

Meanwhile there's an awful lot of moderate Tory MPs getting very nervous and already failing to stick to the Cummings script.

Johnson, until there is an election is going to firmly blow hot and cool, trying to play to the hopes and fears of leavers and remainers to keep them hanging on to hope and the notion that x or y will happen, when x and y can't possibly both happen because they are completely opposing strategies. Hope leads us blindly to stumble like fools into his trap and to win his reelection.

Next week looks very bumpy indeed. Chances are this thread won't make it past Saturday...

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prettybird · 31/08/2019 13:41

I know that woman - and the fact that they're taking place all around the UK (and abroad) is significant. It's just that dh had seen photographs from the Manchester protest that suggested numbers significantly larger than 1,000 - hence the question.

And I'm getting fed up of the BBC's attempts at "balance". Angry

Hoooo · 31/08/2019 13:44

Thanks to all marchers today xx

woman19 · 31/08/2019 13:44

Having a good laugh at the tiny group of corpulent 'tommehs' in whitehall outside their brexity hq :Wetherspoons. Grin

Hoooo · 31/08/2019 13:50

I have 2 copies of jack monroe tin can cook going spare

Pm me if you would like one

BigChocFrenzy · 31/08/2019 13:54

Sajid is only pissed because his power as Chancellor is being cut right back and he is being publicly humiliated

He's not having a crisis of conscience about the prorogue / coup or anything else BJ / Cummings are doing

He thought he was one of the inner circle and these slaps in his face show he isn't

Sajid Javid is 'very comfortable' with suspending parliament despite comparing it to 'trashing democracy'

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-suspend-parliament-prorogue-sajid-javid-no-deal-boris-johnson-democracy-latest-a9086276.html

Busymummy16 · 31/08/2019 13:55

De-lurking to say thanks to marchers. Have followed these threads since the start. Unfortunately I can’t as recovering from an op but make lots of noise for us all.

Icantreachthepretzels · 31/08/2019 14:01

just back from the Leeds protest - don't know numbers but it was packed. more were out today than were out Thursday night and I was impressed with the turnout on Thursday.

One brexiteer tried to start a fight - nothing came of it.

Busymummy16 · 31/08/2019 14:02

Just to add, I’ve been reading Dominic Cummings’ blog. It’s a ranty teenage diatribe against everyone apart from himself (obviously). More unhinged than genius. Actually scary that this man has so much power.

BigChocFrenzy · 31/08/2019 14:05

Sabine Weyand@WeyandSabine

Read also Levitsky/Ziblatt «How democracies die» :

when democratic norms get ignored and institutions become pol. weapons, wielded by those who control them against those who do not.

====
Peter M. Wagner@pmwBxl

„Cynicism drags democracy down.

Parties fracture and head for the extremes.

Populists persuade voters that the system is serving them ill, and undermine it further.

Bad turns to worse.“

=====
The Economist@TheEconomist

The forces at work in Hungary are eating away at other democracies too, including Poland, Britain and the United States
https://econ.trib.al/yRNshbN

Icantreachthepretzels · 31/08/2019 14:18

BBC1 1pm news had Mark Easton saying, "There are thousands here in London but not the millions that were here before."

That's funny - I was assured by people who weren't there that only 400 000 people marched.
Now it turns out it was millions - but only so they can compare crowd size and say today is much smaller because they're not all in one place today you utter fuckwit

So was it a million or not BBC?

Hazardtired · 31/08/2019 14:24

hoooo tried pm'ing you but it says "message is invalid" wasn't urgent but if your PM box is spammed by me it's because I tried sending twice.

flouncyfanny · 31/08/2019 14:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheElementsSong · 31/08/2019 14:39

pretzels I missed an attempted fight? Hot damn!

Ohflippineck · 31/08/2019 14:40

Anybody listening to Any Answers?
Did you hear the moron just now explaining how it was all the EU’s fault that we had lost our mining and manufacturing industries. No doubt he voted for Thatcher.

That fuckwits like him have been allowed to determine all of our futures is absolutely terrifying.

flouncyfanny · 31/08/2019 14:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 31/08/2019 14:41

I'm unable to do any marching at the moment due to problems with my back, so massive thank you to everyone who has marched today.

Very late thanks to red of course for the new ahem thread Grin

TheElementsSong · 31/08/2019 14:54

I see there’s another stockpiling thread in AIBU in which all the Bingo points get an airing.

tobee · 31/08/2019 15:05

Can I just double double check that if Johnson wants to call a general election that he has to go to the House of Commons for a vote before it can happen? (5 year parliament act thingy)

If so, surely the best thing would be for Corbyn et al not to fall for it, vote no to an election, no to VONC? That would be the only power they have?

Jason118 · 31/08/2019 15:10

@tobee I'm increasingly thinking the same. Try the legal route to prevent no deal, then see blojob flounder around with a majority of one. Don't give him what he wants.

flouncyfanny · 31/08/2019 15:12

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Hoooo · 31/08/2019 15:14

I seem to be having phone issues today, sorry!

Hazardtired · 31/08/2019 15:19

Definitely no to a GE until there's a PV or guarentee of a block to no deal.

Not sure over the HoC approval needed for GE...I think so but don't know so.

I would be happy with crossing party working with anyone not psycho after a VONC.

ListeningQuietly · 31/08/2019 15:34

Our local gathering was small, but just large enough that the footie fans walking to their match gave us a wide berth as they shouted "go Boris" Grin

I'm beginning to think this whole thing is all about putting women and uppity proles back in their place

  • anti abortion = depriving women of choice
  • self declared trans = depriving women and girls of their rights
  • disaster capitalism = a chance to dismantle the whole welfare state
its the landed gentlemen taking back control for themselves

aided and abetted by a nihilist anarchist

TheElementsSong · 31/08/2019 15:42

@flouncyfanny I’ve added a couple more definitions.

flouncyfanny · 31/08/2019 15:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

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