Westminstenders: Game On?

[RedToothBrush]

Johnson has had prorogation approved by the Queen.

There has been widespread outrage and horror both in the UK and in Europe. Johnson has ripped up the principle of Liberal democracy even if constitutionally what he has done is legal. In shredding convention and the 'gentlemans agreement' of understanding we teeter on the edge of democratic collapse.

Talk is tha Dominic Cummings is persuing a game theory principle of deliberately putting us on collision course with the EU. The idea being that they will blink first because the alternative of what will happen is just too awful for them to allow. The idea is to force others to make the moves whilst Johnson appears principled and strong, even without a proper strategy and plan for a deal.

And there is the rub. Despite all the Talk of no deal, at some point a deal MUST be made, regardless of whether its before or after 31st October. There is no sense of what that could be and how it could be done. And then there's the prospect of a US deal which suffers from the same lack of tangibility.

All there is, is how things look for a General Election. Nothing else.

Johnson is pitching for an election with no sense of what's needed for Brexit - including the legislation needed for no deal. Not to forget that Cummings, strategist that he is, apparently isn't here for the long haul, only being contracted until 31st October, when he goes for surgery he postponed to take on this job.

So what's the plan for Johnson Post Cummings? Or is he going to do even more 'winging it'.

Meanwhile there's an awful lot of moderate Tory MPs getting very nervous and already failing to stick to the Cummings script.

Johnson, until there is an election is going to firmly blow hot and cool, trying to play to the hopes and fears of leavers and remainers to keep them hanging on to hope and the notion that x or y will happen, when x and y can't possibly both happen because they are completely opposing strategies. Hope leads us blindly to stumble like fools into his trap and to win his reelection.

Next week looks very bumpy indeed. Chances are this thread won't make it past Saturday...

He is a lawyer
Not a nihilist, but anyway his legal advice should be independent of his personal views, or it would be worthless to BJ & co

Oh dear, Blair agrees with me that Labour must refuse to vote for a GE
Corbyn is about as likely to take his advice as mine !

However, McDonnell is pretty canny

"Mr Corbyn has ditched his demand to become caretaker Prime Minister if the Goverment is defeated in a vote of confidence.
Instead, Labour has signed up to a bid by the opposition parties to seize control of the Commons agenda and pass a law blocking a no-deal Brexit."

That's the bit that worries me:

The legislature can block bills very effectively - that's how the Opposition could effectively neuter a 1-vote majority govt after No Deal

But very difficult for the legislature to legally & effectively force the executive to take specific actions within a strict time-frame

The HoC wouldn't dare make that action "Revoke",
so it'll be "request an extension" which is so easy for BJ to sabotage and obtain an EU refusal.

Well, according to Corbyn, this week is the effective last chance,
so we'd better hope the Starmer-Grieve team have had a legal brainwave

• and one that 320+ MPs will vote for

Hopefully Corbyn will see there are bigger issues at stake.

The problem still with another Referendum is that the country is still pretty much evenly split, and even a majority 52:48 the other way won't solve anything. Seeking another extension could only help this process by buying more time to gradually kick Brexit into the long grass. What is needed is somehow for the narrative to be changed away from Brexit to other issues like the NHS, schooling, housing.

But BJ has already planted the seed of his magic spending.....money promised for this and that (at the Marr show they mentioned that the school funding would go all to areas of Tory reach, or areas they want to get to. Not sure how they could get the information in such detail, it’s not yet been presented, anyway...)
I honestly fear that people with brexit fatigue and the lure of all of that gold will just keep on voting for the craziest promises. Reading the comments in other threads, sounds like so many are really beyond caring about truth....

If no deal could be taken off the table another referendum could be for various leave type options. I know that's still shit compared to remain. But better than a civil war.

Thanks BCF

Indeed lawyers would have to be independent but I thought they might need to look for someone who can find the correct angles. Like a defence lawyer v a prosecution lawyer. And if employed by Johnson/Cummings would need to be highly motivated to find them.

Surely the central Tory MPs have got to move under that kind of threat. I suppose it's difficult for outsiders to understand how involved party politics are in Westminster, but, but but...

Having Labour rooting for another General Election at this time has always looked like they were happily playing party politics over country welfare too. We need that referendum. Remain might well lose it. If we do have to have Brexit it needs to be a very long transition period

• 10 years or more - starting soft-as-soft can be. The whole thing was ridiculous, surely all of these politicians can see how dangerous things are getting? The only reassuring thing is public apathy, but how reliable is that in the face of background anger?

@Outsomnia for a fightback, I would start with sowing doubt in leavers minds. Many threads ago someone posted that a direct approach only leads to entrenching of ideas.

Then all the other stuff...

🤞 Corbyn and Labour and opposition parties please please please don't vote for a general election 🤞 please please please please

tobee Cox is probably the one advising them that their prorogation is legal
and advising on other future dirty tricks that Cummings brainstormng team propose

I expect them to stay just a whisker inside the law .... but far outside ethical behaviour

Plase, please don't vote for a GE after No Deal either, until the effects have destroyed the Tories' chances

Best for Britain are crowdfunding to fund a People’s Parliament during prorogation.

www.bestforbritain.org/peoplesparliamentfund

So... what's the key vote to look for on Tuesday? I'm looking at www.parliament.uk calendar for that day. But.. not sure.

I do worry that in terms of game theory, prorogation isn’t throwing the steering wheel out of the window.

Rather it is Ramsey Bolton shooting Rickon Stark in the back to provoke Jon Stark into fighting the Battle of the Bastards on unsafe ground.

It’s a gambit to provoke a premature election.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3681462-Westminstenders-Its-a-trap?watched=1
New Thread

Singing

re my concern re Olanzipine shortages

The aforementioned JRM -type has some longstanding MH issues
and has previously drawn attention to himself due to erratic behaviour around Downing St etc. When unwell, he tends to focus on the Treasury ? No 10, but BJ in particular (so tries to get access to speak to him, as he is concerned about 'what is happening to my Country')

Despite him being a car crash of a human being, I am fond of him.
It could be very difficult for him if he could not access enough Olanzipine at the correct time, (very unlikely to hurt BJ / anyone tho)

It's not just 'universal credit' scroungers (according to the Daily Hate) that are poss affected. It's all of us, even some of the (prev.) 'elite'.

This was in the Guardian today www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/02/irish-border-after-brexit-all-ideas-beset-by-issues

also noted this evening with sadness that we go away not long after New Year and abiding by the 6 months left on your passport rule I might be the first in my family to get a blue one sad

We haven’t been able to take a trip abroad for over ten years due to DH’s health and had let our passports lapse. We made a point of renewing them early this year so that we could get burgundy EU ones. At the time I harboured hopes we’d be back in by the time they needed renewing again. Seems unlikely now

Aroom fingers crossed for all of us who are, or whose loved ones are, relying on imported meds. Very hard to know which, or to what extend, supplies will be affected.

A friend of mine gas just got a new passport on the rapid track service as he'd mislaid somewhere in the house his old one and he's off to Germany next week.

Not only was it still burgundy but it still has EU on it

A friends son got one two weeks ago. Doesn't say EU.

Maybe you need to use Rapid Track ?