private or state: how did you decide?

[marialuisa]

We're in the fortunate position of being able to pay for DD to go private, but we're really unsure whether we should.
Our local primary is dire but there is a strong possibility that DD would get into the neighbouring parish school (we're R.C.) At the moment this school has class sizes of 22, nice "feel", good academically etc. However a new housing estate on the way which will push up class numbers and reduce the chance of DD getting a place.

We have looked around and found that if we want DD to go private we should put her name down now for nursery class in January. Thing is I've not thought that any of the schools were particularly fantastic, indeed been quite horrified in some...

So, do we risk it and stick with the state system or put in the private nursery and perhaps move her if the state school is still ok when it's time for her to go there? An added pressure is that we live in a county with the 11+ and people tend to pay to make sure kids get into the grammars as the alternatives are not great!

So, sorry this is so long, but would like to know how other people decided....

Sorry, meant that DD would start nursery in January. Also has anyone put a child in a school nursery class and then moved them?

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Marialuisa, your situation sounds quite similar to ours - one good local state primary, one not so good. Good one is also just over border of neighbouring borough where...they have the 11 plus and grammar school. I think you are so right to be taking a long view of this - we tried to picture ds (currently sassy, snotty toddler) getting his degree certificate and worked backwards from that.
We applied to both state schools but also put ds down for our local private one. Ds got into indifferent state school, is on waiting list for good one.
Where we differ is that we are lucky with our local private one, it really is a gem. Non-selective, so there are children with a good range of abilities - and because of the difference between our strictly local demographics and the school's catchment area, it is more ethnically mixed than either state primary. It does get excellent academic results for all its children but also includes plenty of PE and music as well as French from seven, something the state sector still has to implement round our way. It has small class sizes and a friendly atmosphere. Its teachers are not obliged to follow the national curriculum to the letter (hence the music, games and languages). We liked it, so did ds, so when we failed to get a place at our state school of choice our minds were made up. I am a happy product of the state system, so is dh, but we were both unanimous in our decision.
What "horrified" you about the private schools you saw? Were they the sort that expect three year olds to undergo some kind of academic assessment? Did they appear to be overly-obsessed with results etc? Or was it more that for the money they charged the education they offered seemd to be perfunctory or lacking in originality?
Reputable private schools are meant to be inspected by IAPS or some other body and increasingly they are also inspected by Ofsted. We relied also on local word of mouth about all the schools we applied to and that helped.
I'd definitely apply for everything you feel comfortable with. There is no reason why the RC school's standards should suddenly plummet when the new estate opens, so definitely stick with that.
Above all, only pay extra for your dd's education if she is going to enjoy it now. Six or seven years is a long time to spend at a school where none of you are truly happy with the situation. We are confident that ds will like his school and it will give him a good chance at 11, but we skipped on other local prep schools because we just did not like their "crammer" ethos.

Not so worried about the school's standards falling, just that DD won't get in if numbers in the catchment area increase, and also that the small classes will change to being full to capacity.

I've not been keen on the local privates for several reasons. They seem more concerned with the trimmings (2.5 y.o. in full school uniform, hats, blazers etc..), there wasn't much room for children who were outside the "norm", a friend was asked to move her DS who is amazing at maths and science but struggles with spelling, handwriting etc..They also seem to be full of rather old, prim teachers. Hard to articulate, just a feeling...Our area is anything but ethnically/socially mixed so this isn't an issue. Everyone's white and varying degrees of middle-class!

I was privately educated until I rebelled at 16, can admit that I did benefit esp early on. DH had a nightmare in the state system (but also rubbish parents) and has made it by himself. Nevertheless he's more worried about DD and the state system than me.

We're also worried because she's quite bright (sorry, I know everyone says that about their own kids), she can recognise letters and whole words, count and knows value of numbers up to 7 and she's only 26 months. We've been warned that if we put her into the private nursery and she starts reading and writing (which seems likely) she will have to start again if she then goes into the state system (by reception teacher at good primary)...

Just stuck about what to do for the best..

We have dire state primary which a couple of my friends have taken their children out of. A new private school opened nearby (a five minute walk away) and we optend for that. It has uniform from age 2.5yo too.

My daughter wnet to daycare two days a week until 3.9 then went to the nursery of the school, mornings only except Mondays. On her first day, we gave notice and moved to Australia for nine months. By the end of her term at nursey she could read simple books. In Australia she attended state Kinder, 11 hours a week and lost interest in reading. The Kinder was ocmpletely play-based.

When we came back she went back into the same private school and her reading leapt on. She is now in Y1 and her teacher says she is reading 2-3 years ahead of her age and, if she were to take SATS now would achieve level 3 - which is Y4 achievement I think.

I like the private school - it feels comfortable and the teachers are good and concerned and feed her thirst for knowledge. There are currently 19 in her class, 16 last year, 20 next year.

Our current choice doesn't mean we don't re-assess. The school she attends now is non-selective (academically) but if we felt she would do better in a school that did select, we would do our best to move her.

If we lived in an area which had excellent schools we would re-consider again. There are alternative ways to spend 5k a year (current fees) and sometimes we have really struggled to pay them.

I guess the point I am trying to make is whatever you do doesn't have to be forever. It may limit your choices for a while if you don't like it and it may mean some hard work trying to get in elsewhere. Yo may even end up home-educating for a while whilst you wait for a place to come up in the school of your choice.

Good luck.

In terms of having to start learning again at primary school I think an awful lot depends on the teacher (and the class size, I guess). My son could read and was good at basic maths before he started school, but there were a few of them in the same boat, plus others who didn't know any letters, and the whole range in between. They all went into reading groups from very early on and were all doing work pitched at their own level; my ds never got bored, but I never heard from other parents that their children were being pushed too hard.
I don't know how general this experience is, but he is at a state school. Good luck with your choice!

I am a teacher is a state secondary school which is pretty poor - failed it's OFSTED big style! We have just put DD's name down for private schooland I have had a bit of stick from some colleagues for this. However, my catchment primary school is dire - really bad. More than two thirds of children speak english as s second language too which isn't useful for DD. We visited 3 of the private schools in town and made out judgement from them. We are lucky in that 2 caught ur attention. We have finally decided on a small school. The school is aged 4-16 years, girls only. It only has about 200 girls in the whole school, with class sizes of about 14. It has excellent exam results, the head teacher was great and very professional, and the school has a lot of great policies, facilities, etc. After this she can go to the mixed sixth form of the private boys school too. We have had to put DD's name down now even though she is only 12 months.

You need to visit some schools where you are considering. Even if you do decide on a state school you can have your name down at a privtae school as well as fall back if you find one you like. You don't have to take up the place. You will have to pay a registration fee almost straight away though and you would loose this - about £30-50 around here.

Forgot to add - the 3 schools we visited in the private sector all followed the national curriculum to an extent, and did SATs, so if they went back into state education they would be okay academically, plus would have learnt more - such as languages, and other additional subjects.

Similar problem to us ClaireandRich. In our catchment area, 55% of schoolchildren speak English as a second language. The schools I visited were quite open as to how they simply didn't have the resources to cope with the situation. I just couldn't justify putting DS into this system when we could afford to send him private. He will be going to a very small school which is non-selective and has a focus on the arts. At this stage, it seems to be a good fit for his personality.

we are in a lot of people say is a really good area but the school is so set on meeting the required levels that our ds and dds seem to have gone backward rather than making any real progress wish we could afford private but couldn't for all three (assumption really as I haven't a clue how much it would cost). If I were in your shoes I would go private, children do seem to progress really well from what I am told and they even have longer holidays!

If mothers like you desert the state sector how are these schools ever going to improve. Get involved in the PTA, become a governor, make sure you get to know other mothers and put on pressure if you are not happy with standards. Dismissing a school because 55% of children don t speak English as a first language just shows your own racism and snobbery. Do you really want your children to turn into little Lord Toffingtons in their ridiculous uniforms, with all those overweening, overcompetitive mothers who want to lock their children away from people "not like us"?

Oh - I do hate it when people make such generalised sweeping statements, often with little personal knowledge of them..........

The local state school school near us is terrible, my children go private and i do not regret my decision one little bit(BTW I work to pay for it)

There are some private schools I didn't like when i visited, but you make an informed decision and I went with my own 'vibe'

I've been trying to stop myself from posting here but I can't. Badmamma I have to say I AGREE - if any parents who care and have influence remove their kids from the State sector how can we expect state schools to thrive. If you encourage your child in education they have every chance of doing well. I've known lots of students from private education who had been so pushed they had no idea how to do anything for themselves, what these students DID have was self-confidence but that can come from you.

I teach at a Sixth Form College now and we have students from all kinds of backgrounds and schools and it's the individual personality that causes them to succeed.

Primary school seems so young to be dividing society and teaching about differences.

MABS, I agree with you. We were in the same situation, and we have chosen to send out children to the local private school. The local primary is dreadful, but not because of language problems, it just isn't very good. Bright children are made to wait for the rest of the class to catch up, and I know that Dd would be dreadfuly disruptive if left to get bored in that way. And it has nothing to do with wanting to make them little 'Lord Toffinghams'. Nice to see some people letting their prejudices show while telling others that they should be judgemental. Oh, and I am working in the state system.

Hear hear hmb. Ds is going where he's going because we think of all the schools we visited locally it was the best option for him as an individual. I suspect that between 4-6 at least he will be pushed towards "literacy at all costs" rather less in his private school than he would at the SATS-obsessed local state primaries (both the very good one and the not-so-good one). And, as I previously said, because of the demographics of our part of London, we are actually putting him into a more diverse school population (ethnically at least) than what's on offer at the two state schools.

Ninja - in a good school it's the individual's potential that allows him/her to suceed - in a bad one it's often the school that stops the child fullfilling his/her potential.
I teach in a 'good' state school and can see very well how those who want to get on do so with/without teachers help - but I have close friends who teach in 'bad ' ones and say they could cry for the kids who want to learn but really cannot get anywhere near fulfilling their potential ( rowdy classes - teachers giving work that doesn't stretch as ''easy'' work makes the kids easier to control, peer pressure not to be a 'boff'. .... I could go on!)
I'd love to be on the side of those who say that you should support state schools full stop - and given the chance I'd gladly abolish all private education as only then does state really stand a chance across the board IMO - but in the meantime I suspect if our local school were appalling I'd go private so I'm sitting firmly on the fence!

I fully agree with ninja and badmamma that it is people like you deserting the state sector who are helping to destroy it. And before having dd I would have castigated you all. But now I'm joining you. There is no way I would sacrifice my daughters education and future to my principles, or give her a worse education so that the children of some mother who doesn't give a shit can get a better one. I'm in the same situation as bells2. I actually help out at the local schools through a workplace reading support system and would never allow my dd to go to the primary school I go to. It's not that 55% of the kids don't speak English, dd's private nursery contains kids from about 12 different countries, but that all the teachers time is spent teaching those kids how to speak English, rather than teaching my dd how to read it.

Gosh this is a bit of a hot potato isn't it! I'll wade in.

I think every parent should be entitled to chose what they think is right for their child. If they can pay for it and they find a provate school they prefer then let them go for it. They'll be paying for the state school in thier taxes anyway.

My boys will be going to State school- there are good ones near us- and I've rejected the league table hotspot for one that has just recently come out of special measures (new head- I really like the school).

In an ideal world the state school of our dreams would be on our doorstep and we'd be guaranteed a place. I've been paying for aspects of Ds1's education since before he was 2 (speech therapy, OT, AIT) and I would love for the state to provide it for me. Unfortuantely what they do provide is woefully inadequate ( I have been told by professional after professional we need an OT asssessment- ds1 can't hold a pencil his fine motor skills are so bad- we have been waiting a year and will be waiting another 2- this is meant to go on his statement- so I am having to pay for an assessment so his statement can reflect his need)- So do I just leave that side of his education and allow him to grow up non-verbal and unable to live an independent life as that is what would result from leaving it to State provision.

People who choose to pay for their childs education because local state provision is inadequate are making the same sort of choice. There are competitive mothers at private schools and there are at state schools as well.

Now I do think it is a shame that the govt abolished assisted places.

glass of wine- now there's a good idea!

Nice glass of white for me please Tinker?

oh precisely KS. Given the choice I'd like to pay for the boys to go to a Steiner school. Unfortunately ds1's needs can only be accomodated at a state school, and so logistically it would be impossible for ds2 to go to the steiner school.

I agree the standard is crap but school get forced to teach to tests rather than educate. I used to teach at an A level crammer- we had students doing A levels in 1 term, 2 terms or 3 terms- so we basically taught them what they needed to know to pass the exam. To see that happening at primary school level is horrendous.

When we live din Bromley we looked at private schools for ds1. At the time we thought we had a sensitive soul who was showing an academic bent. Little did we know we were dealing with autism and there isn't a private shool in the land that would take him (he "passed" his interview to one at 2 and a half). Some of the schools I looked at were testing hothouses, but we did see some lovely caring schools and the one we put his name down for was really caring. We chose it because we thought it would remove sats pressure.

Here in Plymouth there is less competition for primary schools - I don't even know what the sats results are for the state school we've chosen. I can safely say I'm not interested- the school does seem to treat each child as an individual and they made me feel ds1 would be welcome and not a problem.

I don't think it matters where you get that feeling- state or private- you know when you've found the right school for your child.

I knew I shouldn't have got involved in this and I don't condemn anyone who makes their choice to send their kids to (or for that matter to teach in) a private school (well only a little bit) - I would have done so in the past. I just think it's really sad that these decisions maintain the status quo. It is a hot potato but it's also an important issue that needs a discussion from both sides of the debate. Just because you can afford to send a child to private school doesn't mean to say you can ignore the isssues. I know a lot of people who try and ignore the issue by moving again a priviliged choice! Maybe I'm being too idealistic but it's my opinion.