private or state: how did you decide?

[marialuisa]

We're in the fortunate position of being able to pay for DD to go private, but we're really unsure whether we should.
Our local primary is dire but there is a strong possibility that DD would get into the neighbouring parish school (we're R.C.) At the moment this school has class sizes of 22, nice "feel", good academically etc. However a new housing estate on the way which will push up class numbers and reduce the chance of DD getting a place.

We have looked around and found that if we want DD to go private we should put her name down now for nursery class in January. Thing is I've not thought that any of the schools were particularly fantastic, indeed been quite horrified in some...

So, do we risk it and stick with the state system or put in the private nursery and perhaps move her if the state school is still ok when it's time for her to go there? An added pressure is that we live in a county with the 11+ and people tend to pay to make sure kids get into the grammars as the alternatives are not great!

So, sorry this is so long, but would like to know how other people decided....

Can I join in too!!!! All private schools should be abolished. There should not be this division in education, all children should be treated as equal. It is not fair that someone who earns a stack load of cash can pay for a higher education than I can for my dd, why is she not entitled to the same standard of education as their kids?

I went to a very rough state school and left with a C in Religion. But what I learned about life more than made up for it! Then when I matured I went back to college and I now have a Law Diploma and a Degree in English Lit and Law. But the school taught me to mix with every child of every creed and background imaginable, it taught me how to struggle for a better quality of life, it taught me to appreciate the things that I already had. When I was 24 I went to college in Oxford and some of the kids at Uni there had just come out of private schooling, they obviously didn't have a clue about life, what it is like to struggle, their disregard for us 'ordinary students' was obvious for all to see.

No, I actually feel sorry for the parents who send their kids to private schools. You are kidding yourselves that your child will recieve a better education than mine. Well your child might get more GCSE's/A Levels and a better hons degree than mine, but my child will have a much better knowledge of life and people, she will have more compassion and more strength, and she will be appreciative of what she has.

If I could I would blow up all the private schools tomorrow - how dare you think you can separate your child from mine, pay for a more priviledged life for your child, what makes your kids any better than mine and why should you be allowed to get away with it?

Badmamma for someone who values inclusivity so much you seem very content to make all sorts of judgements about those choosing and attending private schools. There are all sorts of private schools out there with different things to offer. And yes, in London especially a lot attract people from very diverse backgrounds both ethnically and socially.

Badmamma I think you are getting way too personal and you are very 'prejudiced' towards privately educated children. At the end of the day it's all about choice isn't it ? You are fortunate that you have a good state school near you. For those of us that don't it's a shame and if we choose to go private who are you to criticise ?

As far as people's attitude's go you are making such a sweeping statement. I know just as well that private schools have their fair share of problems, including drugs etc. That is not what this is about. Smaller class sizes = better attention for children - it's a fact.

You sound like you have a real chip on your shoulder about 'privatesville' !! How can you assume that privately educated children are not well rounded individuals who only judge people on what they have. That is absolutely ridiculous and very classist.
Why is it that people think that if you buy a child an education (and work very hard to do so) that you are making a statement to say 'im a better person' because so many people aren't like that for the few that are.
There are just as many nasty people in state schools you know.

but badmamma I'm going to have to go on a stupid school run every day with kids in the back of the car sitting in traffic just to get to the State school of my choice. If I was sending the kids privately (and obviously that's not really an option) there are two schools within walking distance.

Just as a matter of interest- those of you who are opposed to privbate education- are you also opposed to private healthcare- and if not why not?

It just stikes me that there are similarities- it's unfair that some people can queue jump, it's unfair that you can get a better service by paying for it (or indeed a service as opposed to none).

Big up to you Rhubarb! When ever I meet local parents who live within catchment of our school but have opted out I think, "what makes you think your kids are so special?"

I would also like to know what all of you that talk about state schools producing more rounded individuals etc mean ? What DOES that mean ? I expect that you assume that people from private schools live in palaces in fairyland and never come accross disease, death, poverty etc What a load of rubbish !

But Badmama that is exactly it, why do you think that these people think their children are better than yours - has anybody said it ? No ! It's what you feel not what they think ! It's not about anyone's kids being superior. It's about parents choosing what sort of education they want for their children.
Out of interest, what do anti-private people think of home education - is this also opting out ?

have ti say some of the most predujice seems to be coming from the anti private brigade.

Rhubarb- yep there are quite a few ex public school boys/girls at Oxford who are a bit clueless (but no more- in fact probably less- than at Durham, York, or Bristol)- but equally there are plenty of students from totally normal backgrounds there. And actually some of the old Etonians are human too. There would probaly be many more working class salt of the earth types if they weren't put off by the reverse snobbery that seems to abound about the place. "their disregard for us ordinary students was plain to see" - sounds more like your chip on your shoulder was plain to see.

ooooohhhh no Tillysmummy- don't get into home education- been there before- it wasn't pretty

Cor, is this still going?! Just to point out, if it isn't obvious, that I didn't equate middle class parents with caring parents! I said "I do have some sympathy with badmamma's view that if the majority of concerned parents desert the state sector then who is left to get involved, care about and work to change state schools?" I don't think it's necessarily about class and I don't think only the middle classes care about education, absolutely not. And I haven't accused anyone of racism or snobbery either. Right, glad that's clear!

Badmamma, whilst I agree with some of your views I don't think you've done your cause any favours by suggesting some of these things, which is a shame.

Bells, Tigermoth and others I agree, education IS the government's responsibility, of course it is and we shouldn't really have to have this discussion. Bubbly, I agree that what we all want is happy well educated children and yes, "we do need to work with schools as partners on the governing board and PTS'a and in the classrooms and at home to ensure these things". The thing is, we might all want these things but I just don't think we all get them! Or can get them, depending on where we live and how much money we do or don't have.

Although £££ doesn't necessarily = good education, surely many people must think it does, otherwise why would they bother sending their child to a school where they have to pay ££££? Or, in some cases it must actually mean a better education mustn't it, depending on where you live? Don't private schools have more money? Therefore don't they pay teachers higher salaries? Isn't staff morale and retention higher? Don't they have better equipment and classrooms? I'm not saying the education they provide is necessarily better, just that it clearly is perceived as better by many parents, otherwise why would they send their child to one? Slighly off topic, but IIRC wasn't there someone on another thread whose child was asked to leave a private school because they weren't doing well enough? Whilst maybe not all private schools do this it seemed sad to me: kicking children out because they drag down your results can't be good for a child. Do state schools do this? I may well have got this wrong of course.

Tillysmummy, I think you were answering my quesiton - I'm glad you will do all you can to help the state system, what kind of things are you thinking of? And Custardo, good on you joining the PTA. I applied to be a governor at our school but they wanted a non parent. Ah well, next school. Right, off to the yurt.

oops JimJams ! Just was curious to know if the same rules applied. I shall leave you all to argue it out over the next week as im moving house. BTW, does choosing the area you want to live in also mean you are being classist because you don't choose to live in an area that you don't like ? Perhaps I better shup up and go and pack some boxes

But jimjams it was worth the flying fur, you converted this non-believer!

WWW, I don't know but whatever I think I can do to make any difference I will (suggestions welcome!) - I would very much like the state system to be so much improved that in 30 or so years time if dd has children and wants to send them to a state school she can. Im all for having a good state education.

Quite frankly I'm glad my son will be in the private sector if it means avoiding some of the prejudiced, blinkered, bitter views on display here. Wickedwaterwitch your original post was eminently reasonable.

Rhubarb and Badmamma - hear, hear !!

Scrap private education - its classist, creates divisions in society and creates narrow minded blinkered kids.

How often do you get to mix with people from different religions, creeds, classes ? As you get older the opportunities for doing so decrease - they certainly have in my world. School is where we should be learning those values. To all those parents sending their kids to private education where else do you think they are going to learn these values ? Or, do they really matter to you ?
They do to me.

It should be mandatory for all citizens in our complicated society to learn that class and quality of education do not define a persons worth. Sorry but most of the privately educated kids that I have come into contact with seem to lack those fundamental values.

Jimjams, I'm anti private health care too, for the same reasons. So at least I'm consistent!

kaz33, i hope my child will learn those values at home as well as at school.

Kaz33 and everyone else that thinks that privately educated people are not well rounded and can't appreciate other classes / races

My father is Chinese, my mother English. My father was born in Hong Kong and came over her from the age of 13 because his father died and he had to support his mother and two brothers. He worked very hard in a restaurant and slowly but surely built up his business. He chose to send us to private schools because he had never had the education and wanted us to have it. He is a brilliant man, and worked his way up from nothing.

My grandmother was working aged 75 until my brother and I clubbed together to help her out each month to subsidise her pension so she could live. We don't have a lot of money but what we do have we want to help her and other people with.

How dare anyone on hear be so ignorant as to use sweeping statements to categorise people when you know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about their personal circumstances. Generalisations don't work.

Meant to say here not hear !

and another thing ! As far as race goes, most private schools have a large ethnic contingent!

"At the end of the day it's all about choice isn't it ? " You what???? £8500 per term per child is a choice for people???

Abolish the lot of them, vote for a party who will tax you properly, stop paying for accountants to set up tax avoidance schemes for you (which again only the wealthy can afford) and take responsibility for the education of ALL children. Or is there no such thing as 'society' any more?

And please, please, please don't bring out the 'I work hard' argument.

And no, I am not in favour of private healthcare either.

@ www.

Just out of interest though www what would you do if you knew that your child needed OT and speech and langauge therapy- and needed it quite desperately. You had been told that speech and language therapy was not available at the required frequency and that having waited a year for OT would have to wait at least another two before an assessment. That is the reality of the NHS in most of the country for this sort of thing. So I make no apologies for paying what I can to get my son out of the mess. And I can't afford to replace the service the NHS should be providing (ie speech therapy 5 times a week for 2 years), but I can afford to have someone teach me what to do. If I could afford a therapist I would. Principals, consistent or not, wouldn't do my son much good.

I would imagine in some areas the education choice is similar. Terrible school or fee paying. I know what I'd choose. I'm sure most people would chose state if they were given a good option though.

Tillysmummy, of course I am being provocative and don't really believe that things are that cut and dried.

You obviously have highly developed values - but it would appear that you got those values from your family not from your education. You got first hand experience.

I worry that my children will only see the fruits of my and my parents hard work - a situation that would only be enhanced if I sent them to private education.

Tinker same to you then- about the private speech therapy and OT. I just can't believe that any of you wouldn't step in to buy a service (which isn;t available on the the NHS) for your child- if you could afford it- just because it's against your principals.

And this isn't me being pushy parent. The paediatrician has told me ds1 needs OT, the ed psych has said he needs OT, his nursery has said he needs OT, preschool advisory have said he needs oT (and offered to try and find someone private). Everyone has agreed that of course he needs SALT 5 times a week. But when pushed they will agree that actually not of that is going to happen.

Oh and Lil- will you be joinging educaiton otherwise then

Rhubarb, you say that "it is not fair that someone who earns a stack load of cash can pay for a higher education than I can for my dd" Dare I say it: No, it's not. Life's not fair. It's not fair that (had we not moved) the child of a practicing Christian could have got a better education than my DS. It's not fair that he can't go to X school which is better than Y school because he's a boy not a girl...

Kaz33, I would hope that my chldren learn those values from me. You still get racist, narrow minded bigots as a product of the state system. I wonder (honestly) how many of the National Front or BNP are privately educated - you really don't get much more narrow minded than that!!

Even if you were to abolish private schools the standard of education will vary greatly from school to school. Is it fair that child A living in (say) Sussex has a better education than child B living in a less than prosperous inner city? Good schools seem to attract good teachers and good teachers make good schools. How would you all get round this?