Alternatives to AstraZeneca vaccine for under 40s “will be considered” amid rise in blood clots Thread 3

[Whichjab]

New thread as the MRHA report is out today.

Note this is not an anti vaccination thread.

Not good news on the report today. Seems to be getting more concerning every week

I think it's because if you look at the statistics the odds still remain small. My brain doesn't work like that, though. It's a risk I'm unwilling to take and I felt so upset for the op of that thread. "I/DH/ndn had AZ and we're fine - just get it done" just isn't helpful. And, if your brain works the same way as mine, the more people I hear about who were fine, the higher the odds of me becoming the one!

It's starting to feel like the people suffering VITT are viewed as nothing more than collateral damage.

After today’s report what are people’s thoughts re second doses? I’m at 13 weeks post my first. I cancelled my second dose last weekend and had been waiting for the report to try and make a decision about rebooking. I’m in my late 30s have two children in school / preschool and live in an area where the infection rate is rising and is currently about 120 in 100,000.

@Leaveitonthefloordrobe

I think it's because if you look at the statistics the odds still remain small. My brain doesn't work like that, though. It's a risk I'm unwilling to take and I felt so upset for the op of that thread. "I/DH/ndn had AZ and we're fine - just get it done" just isn't helpful. And, if your brain works the same way as mine, the more people I hear about who were fine, the higher the odds of me becoming the one!

It's starting to feel like the people suffering VITT are viewed as nothing more than collateral damage.

Yes, I could take low numbers if they weren't totally random and there was something I could do to mitigate against them.

I know the chances of being run over by a bus or struck by lightning are greater, but in neither of those circumstances would I deliberately put myself in harm's way.

@Rainbowsandstorms

After today’s report what are people’s thoughts re second doses? I’m at 13 weeks post my first. I cancelled my second dose last weekend and had been waiting for the report to try and make a decision about rebooking. I’m in my late 30s have two children in school / preschool and live in an area where the infection rate is rising and is currently about 120 in 100,000.

Have you spoken to your GP? A colleague of DH's had dreadful side effects from AZ, although certainly not at the level of being hospitalised, and she was given Pfizer. Have read a number of reports on Twitter of people being given it too - the journalist Hannah Jane Parkinson had a thread on it about a week ago.

Also does anyone have a screenshots of last week’s report re second doses. Is it three new deaths after second doses?

[quote Maia77]@Chailatteplease All under 40s I know got Pfizer, but I think they said it might depend on availability of Pfizer in the area. But I think it will probably be Pfizer.
Maybe he could ring the vaccination place and check.[/quote]
@Maia77 thank you!

@Rainbowsandstorms the second doses have gone up 4 from last week and it now says there have been 4 deaths relating to second doses but obviously we cannot know if they are the same '4' but I don't like the coincidence.

Thank you @SheilaTakeABow that’s been my last resort plan. Feel apprehensive about mixing but the early data is promising. Going to book an appointment with my GP to discuss as I don’t think I can bring myself to go for my second while the data is ever changing. I know the risks seem to be smaller with the second and the vaccine has been rolled out to huge numbers but the number of deaths from a specific and known cause directly attributed to the vaccination feels unacceptable to me.

@Leaveitonthefloordrobe I feel the same. I read the odds of dying in a skydive are approx 1 in 28000... So not far from the same, except no one is coercing me to jump out of a plane.

I don't understand why every other government except UK has been capable of recognising this risk (after fewer deaths) and very quickly changing their guidelines.

A friend received this from her GP surgery. Wonder if this is happening more widely now?

I am angry about this because the weight of evidence is now suggesting that AZ is riskier than initially presented. I also think it is a bit disingenuous to keep saying over 50s less affected for a number or reasons:

• over 80s were generally prioritised for pfizer so we have no comparator figures
• no one was looking at blood clots in the over 50s until the problem was identified in other countries. Many cases could therefore be under the radar as the specific information required to identify cases retrospectively was probably not collected at the time.
• I am not convinced that even now the medics are looking into blood clots that arise within a certain period of time following the vaccine. A distant relative's fatal clot was simply put down to her being in bad health anyway - not one question was asked about when she had had her second vaccine.

I am now 13 days after my 2nd dose and still scared every day about blood clots. From what I have read it's 1 in 600000 after 2nd dose, will that have changed now?

I’d be surprised if the 4 new cases after second were the same as the 4 deaths. It takes a while for Yellow Card reports to trickle through and be registered etc.

I’d be interested to know what the base population rate for “thrombosis with thrombocytopenia” is because it’s not zero. I know VITT is a specific condition but to me it’s not clear if all the Yellow Card reports are definitely VITT or “just” TT.

This is behind the paywall but the headline says it all

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/06/17/oxford-astrazeneca-vaccine-fans-banned-bruce-springsteen-concert/

@Sassanacs you’re in an age bracket where you should only be offered sites that are offering an alternative to AZ so you shouldn’t have anything to worry about. In the unlikely event you’re offered AZ you can refuse and rebook elsewhere. Locally everyone I know under 40 has been given Pfizer.

@Elisandra

A friend received this from her GP surgery. Wonder if this is happening more widely now?

There's at least 10 walk-in Pfizer clinics within 5 or so miles of my house most days.

We are almost hotspot though, just outside of BwD

Here we are weeks later and we STILL cannot calculate proper risk per age group. All this lumping large age groups together is very convenient. Waiting to see what Prof Makris tweets next.

Hi everyone

Still waiting

Still testing every few days so I know I'm not putting anyone at risk with my decision

Still angry!

Still pissed off to hear about walk in clinics for Pfizer in England when we can't choose here in Scotland

Our age bracket have been forgotten about

@Rainbowsandstorms I know you follow Prof Markis on Twitter, looks like he isn’t convinced that 2nd dose are the ‘real’ VITT cases.
Regardless it’s a worry, I’m 7 days post my second dose and feel like there’s still so much longer to go!

These walk-in Pfizer clinics sound great. Unfortunately, not sure there are any near me. Are they mostly in London?

@Bubalie how are you doing? It’s that long wait that I can’t bare the thought of! I’ve found his tweets really reassuring. I just wish there was more transparency. I’ve spent the evening researching the policy in different countries re second doses and researching mix and match. I’m going to speak to my GP tomorrow or early next week if I can get an appointment and see if they will authorise Pfizer. Feel apprehensive about this option too but I’m struggling to face the anxiety of the four weeks after. I suffer from a lot of headaches too which really doesn’t help.

@Grellbunt I’m so sorry the situation in Scotland is just awful. I hope something changes soon for you.

@Rainbowsandstorms I’m ok so far. It’s been 7 days for me, still got a while to go before I can relax. It’s such a nightmare, it’s been really hard to make any decision. Worry either way, vaccine or no vaccine. I still can’t believe I went through with my second dose considering how worried I am. I hope your GP is understanding and you get the outcome you feel most comfortable with 😊

I officially missed my second dose of AZ today (cancelled it!) I think I'll give it to 16 weeks and see what the data looks like. I'm not comfortable with mixing as it just feels like another untested risk like my first dose of AZ turned out to be. The cases on the news of young women dying from clots make me so upset. Yes statistically tiny but it could have been me, it really could - and I didn't know. And I SHOULD have known. The data was there, it was just being ignored and we were being fed a massive lie about 'Brexit-related jealousy of our marvellous vaccine'.