Alternatives to AstraZeneca vaccine for under 40s “will be considered” amid rise in blood clots Thread 3

[Whichjab]

New thread as the MRHA report is out today.

Note this is not an anti vaccination thread.

The figures seemed scary enough to me before. I do hope they soon find more information about who is at risk.
And I also hope all those still waiting and trying to avoid AZ get given a choice

I don't see why they don't give the remaining people a choice now. At least to prevent panic visits to A&E.

@lcenii

I don't see why they don't give the remaining people a choice now. At least to prevent panic visits to A&E.

They should. But they just don’t have the supply of mRNA vaccines. If only Novavax had arrived on time.

I was really hoping for better news about the 2nd vaccination. I was swaying towards feeling that I’d have to have it and hope for the best but I don’t like the way the figures are going.

@Rainbowsandstorms

I was really hoping for better news about the 2nd vaccination. I was swaying towards feeling that I’d have to have it and hope for the best but I don’t like the way the figures are going.

Exactly the same @Rainbowsandstorms

Been waiting for this data hoping there would be a tiny increase, if one at all.

@whataballbag what really worries me is that MHRA is on the one hand saying things like “little to no risk with second dose” (paraphrasing) - meanwhile the numbers go up and members of the expert panel reviewing the cases say they haven’t seen any dead-cert VITT cases after second dose but also that they haven’t been given details of the reported cases by MHRA. Which is it?!

Am extremely pro vax and don’t think we are “being lied to” but from where I’m standing it feels a bit like they don’t want to admit there’s a problem and have a whole load of half vaccinated people rocking around...

Icenii I think the answer is that no-one knows as this is a disorder linked to vaccination so the doctors are extrapolating from similar syndromes. I read an article which said a minimum of three months anti-coagulants, but the paper stressed that data is emerging. All that can be said is that haematologists have done their best to understand and offer treatment pathways as soon as possible but they are working as the risks emerge, if that makes sense.

@MiniMaxi I agree there seems to be a real lack of transparency about the cases after second doses. Like @whataballbag I’d been really hoping that there would just be a minimal increase in cases after the second dose. I’m also yet to see any information regarding time scales, ages or sex of the cases after second doses. I’m concerned that they don’t know what to do with those of us who have had the first dose as none of the three potential options are ideal especially with those of us with a lower risk of covid. I’m worried that those of us who hold of a second dose and are in an age group where AZ is no longer being given will be forgotten and given little guidance nor a solution. Go ahead with the second dose and hope for the best isn’t currently an option I feel comfortable with, looking at today’s figures.

[quote Rainbowsandstorms]**@MiniMaxi* I agree there seems to be a real lack of transparency about the cases after second doses. Like @whataballbag* I’d been really hoping that there would just be a minimal increase in cases after the second dose. I’m also yet to see any information regarding time scales, ages or sex of the cases after second doses. I’m concerned that they don’t know what to do with those of us who have had the first dose as none of the three potential options are ideal especially with those of us with a lower risk of covid. I’m worried that those of us who hold of a second dose and are in an age group where AZ is no longer being given will be forgotten and given little guidance nor a solution. Go ahead with the second dose and hope for the best isn’t currently an option I feel comfortable with, looking at today’s figures.[/quote]
Also concerning that every other country seems to think it's better/safer to mix then risk a second dose of AZ. I feel like it should at least be an option.

Is it the case now that more healthy under 50s are currently dying after the vaccine than from covid? Re non death effects of the clots, it was not vaccine related but I have a relative who had a blood clot in the brain and has been severely disabled since, though I have no idea if this is/has happened in any of these cases, I hope not. I am mid 40s, only being offered AZ, and not had a vaccine as unfortunately I am just not comfortable with these stats at the moment and lack of transparency as to who might be higher / lower risk from the blood clots etc

@nordica

Unfortunately I don't know anyone personally (the locations offered seem to change each time depending on the persons age group) but I have reached out to a local group in my area and it primarily seems to be offering AZ although some people have been given alternatives, but I have no details of why - whether is was supply or specific to that person.

I booked though a link (which must be the main booking site) I was sent by text and just chose the closest location to me. The next one was over 20miles away and then others gradually further still. I'm hoping that the locations offered to me were different because of my age and therefore I'll be offered an alternative.

It's bloody annoying because I'm trying to do the right thing but at the same time I need to also consider myself. The times I have ignored my intuition or 'internal voice', I've regretted it immensely.

I don't know what to do at all. I'm 29 and due my 2nd dose of AZ Saturday coming. I feel absolutely sick with worry. Any others had first AZ and not going to get the second?

@Snowhitetann I’m in my 30s and due my second dose in just over three weeks. I’m watching the data very carefully. I’m naturally risk adverse and don’t yet feel there is enough data regarding the risk to make an informed choice. Ireland have lengthened the gap between doses to 16 weeks for low risk under 50s while the data emerges. My plan is to assess the situation in three weeks time but I imagine I’ll end up postponing a bit longer unless the data is more reassuring or cases of covid have sky rocketed.

Does anyone know if there are any mixing trials going on where participants are under 50 or when the data will be released regarding immunity after mixing vaccines? I’m assuming there will be some follow up in our countries where they have given an mRNA vaccine as a second dose. I’m not keen on mixing without more data either.

@Farmer5505 in under 50s without any risk factors I think there could well be which is concerning.

@Rainbowsandstorms I think the Com-Cov results are due in June but I don’t know when.

Thank you @MiniMaxi hoping for some good news.

The results from a similar trial in Spain are looking promising.

Up to 7 times more antibodies after an AZ followed by a Pfizer

www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01359-3

Ooh thanks @whataballbag

Thank you for the new thread.
I am sure this Twitter account was mentioned in the previous thread but is definitely worth following for expert information.
https://twitter.com/profmakris/status/1395353150907899904?s=21
Professor Michael Makris, Professor of Haemostasis & Thrombosis, Sheffield University who is taking a very close interest in VITT in both first and second doses of AZ and is seeking more transparency with doses/age groups from MHRA. As it looks though he is involved with the protocol for treating this condition there are a lot of interesting threads on his account.

@whataballbag, please note that the study involved 600 people (with only 400 being given a second alternative jab) and it lasted one month.

Not saying it’s bad to get a different second dose, but scientists and doctors asked the government to allow people to get AZ as second if they so wished, and they have agreed to do so today (study published yesterday).

They need to release the full incidence rates by age for first and second doses. They have this information and one can only conclude they’re choosing not to release it because they know under 50s won’t like the numbers and opt out of vaccination.

This vaccine needs to be be phased out completely but they (a) don’t have enough supply of anything else and (b) are too proud because it’s the “British vaccine”.

Indigo I have a screenshot but I now see that was from the previous week! Apologies. So you're right, but 17 new cases in that age group in a week is grim, given that the weekly rate of new first AZ doses over the past few weeks has been quite low - around the 700,000 mark or even less.

@Schulte

Indigo I have a screenshot but I now see that was from the previous week! Apologies. So you're right, but 17 new cases in that age group in a week is grim, given that the weekly rate of new first AZ doses over the past few weeks has been quite low - around the 700,000 mark or even less.

Agreed. That’s around 1 in 40,000 and before data from the early-mid 40s has properly flowed in. From reading some individual accounts it can actually take quite a long time to get diagnosed and then there’s reporting lag. Grim indeed.

Honestly I think they need to stop giving this to anyone under 60.

Those of you worried about mixing and having Pfizer as a second dose after AZ... by now quite a few people in Germany will have gone down that route. I have not seen any stats but if there was a major issue with mixing, we'd probably know by now. I do hope the UK will allow this soon and stop forcing (for want of a better word, but this is what it amounts to) AZ on people who want to be vaccinated.