Disengagement 710 - Ethnic cleansing!

[Squeezingwildoranges]

If the current Israeli government manage to expel all Palestinians from the land, should all Israelis be held culpable for not trying to stop it.

@AnyfoolcanknowThepointistounderstand and @inamarina so is your position that the Palestinians in Gaza are collectively responsible for the atrocities committed by Hamas and therefore it is reasonable for the Israeli public to stand back and let disengagement 710 become a reality? I do think the majority of the Israeli public probably share your views.

As for the Palestinians, of course they have been blamed for voting for Hamas. These accusations have been constant in the right wing media. I guess you have closed your eye to this.
Think this has been demonstrated on this thread. No innocents in Gaza.

And do you see any racism in @AnyfoolcanknowThepointistounderstand post? You don't seem to have been bothered by it considering you've been involved in anti racism training for over 40 years.....

I’ve never , on any thread , said I blamed all Palestinians for 8/11.
I completely understand how some would feel too afraid to speak out.

Having said that - there were people living near me ( in London) who decided it was appropriate to celebrate in the streets the rapes and murder of innocent people in the immediate aftermath of October 8.

I don’t judge ALL Muslims just because some in London ( far away from the intimidation of Hamas ) celebrated the torture, rape and murder of Israelis.
I’m also not inclined to judge Israelis for not protesting against their government. They may feel morally conflicted but ultimately everyone puts their family safety first .

I’ve never , on any thread , said I blamed all Palestinians for 8/11.

I never said you did. Your post is not the one I was referring to.

The people who I do judge are the self righteous westerners who only ever promote the “fashionable” cause .
They’re never interested in the persecution of Christians in Nigeria/ Pakistan etc
They only ever want to talk about what Israel is doing .

My points still stand.

How do know they aren't? And are you? If so which threads did you start on here about those situations, and which demonstrations have you organised for people to attend or have attended yourself?

A very fair question.
Ive started one thread .
I donate and raise money for Aid to the Church in Need ( which includes Christian Palestinians)
https://acnuk.org/?srsltid=AU7gw4V8eD0qAEmPQJokMqA7VNa7fmEhNPCENQphAxLuV5Ep-_n9B2MS

Thats great, but imagine though if someone implied you only did that because you thought it was cool or fashionable.

And anyway why wouldn't you believe that people can care about more than one injustice and terrible situation at the same time? I care about about lots different groups of people and actively support lots of organisations who are helping them. Why would you assume that people who speak up for Palestinians only care about that group?

I assume that because of what I’ve seen and heard .
( Eg Iranian protesters abused on pro Palestinian marches)
The proliferation of Palestinian flags etc

I also assume it because I know it’s much tougher to try to fund raise for Aid for the Church in Need …. Whereas so many people are happy to be witnessed donating for Palestine . It’s much more fashionable

I didn’t say all Gazans were responsible for Hamas’ actions.
At the same time, since we’ve been told so many times that ‘it didn’t start with October 7th’ and ‘what do you expect after years of oppression’, we could also look at how the people on the other side of the conflict might be feeling after years of attacks.

Sorry I dont understand why a Palestinian flag would mean the person holding it wouldn't care about other repressed or suffering groups?

What do mean "witnessed" donating to Palestinian causes? I donate to lots of causes, no one witnesses it anymore than you are witnessed donating to causes. There are lots of different organisations /charities that probably find fundraising difficult, that doesn't mean that donating to charities for the Palestinian people is somehow wrong or should be sneered at.

Because it’s the only flag I see?

Hmm - 🤔
I’m not sure

Your views have been expressed very clearly. However, this specific discussion is about the passive dissenters, not the active supporters.

As someone who is not Jewish, I feel antisemitism (bigotry against Jews for no logical reason other than they are Jewish), is not only vile but illogical. If I am missing something, can you explain it.

That would have been a slight improvement yes

You are absolutely right. Do you understand the point I've been trying to make or do you want to go back to the accusations of last night?

The only flag you see when? On the marches to support the Palestinian cause? Why would you find it odd to see the Palestinian flag then? What flags did you expect to see? Spanish? Russian? Chinese?

That is speaking about personal guilt/shame and how we personally should feel about not standing up, not saying we should hold people that don't protest accountable. His thing was not about projection of hate but being part of the light to break through the darkness.

Think you should read up on kings various speeches about Israel, zionism and antisemitism

I totally understand the point are trying to make, just don't agree with you

Last night you stated their was no evidence of what someone was accusing.

I knew their was evidence so stated it, simple

Just move on

To be honest I find it odd they use that flag at all. It doesn't represent the people of Gaza, it represents a cause that a horrible little man who was trained by the KGB convinced them to believe in against their best interests. That cause has destroyed the peace process and so many lives plus future lives. The flag sucks.