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Conflict in the Middle East

US-Iran peace agreement discussion, part 4

1000 replies

RedTagAlan · 13/08/2026 11:40

Thread 4 for those following and commenting on the above subject.

OP posts:
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85
trumpredcard · 26/08/2026 00:27

When a former Chief of Staff to a US Secretary of State says that the US won't win an economic war against Iran and that Bessent might as well go home, and some posters on this thread had already come to the same conclusion themselves, what possible reasons are Trump's advisers giving that makes them think economic pressure will work?

Twiglets1 · 26/08/2026 00:44

Squeezingwildoranges · 26/08/2026 00:26

Read the two examples much slower. The UK bombed German assets in France and then France joined a military alliance afterwards. Iran bombed US assets in Saudi Arabia and then Saudi Arabia may join a military alliance afterwards.

4 years later!

trumpredcard · 26/08/2026 00:48

@BelleHathor the Col Wilkerson interview now has me researching the Nixon tapes regarding Chile.

JadeHare · 26/08/2026 06:06

From the Telegraph:

“The Trump administration is hallucinating again. The US’s “economic D-Day” against Iran will exhaust political consent in Washington for this ill-conceived war long before it forces Iran’s Revolutionary Guards to capitulate.
It draws out the spectacle of Donald Trump’s aimless flailing in a region that neither he nor his close advisers begin to understand, further convulsing the global energy, food and commodity markets and further eviscerating US strategic credibility.
The plan to mount the “single greatest financial offensive ever marshalled against an adversary” requires also mobilising China, Russia, India, Turkey, a resentful Europe and the world’s major financial centres in a joint campaign to throttle Iran, a country that has already learned to live with 2,200 separate US sanctions.”
“The US treasury could plausibly have pulled off such a feat 10 to 15 years ago when it was able to crush nations by the “boa constrictor” method, using all the tools of the world’s dollarised financial system. But that supremacy relied on a tight-knit phalanx of democratic allies – or what we used to call the West. Such a world no longer exists, and China cannot be pushed around any longer.
Scott Bessent, the US treasury secretary, has threatened the economic obliteration of any country that declines to enlist as foot soldiers in America’s quarrel.
“If you insist on doing business with them – either transferring money, buying their oil, doing seaborne ship transport – the US government will put its full might and force toward enforcing against you,” he said.
Such hubris is courting fate for a nation that depends on constant inflows of capital from these same countries to fund its twin deficits and that already has to pay punitive interest rates to sell its bonds.”
“The US treasury made a Faustian pact by issuing so much short-term debt. The trap is closing. Bessent must roll over or fund almost $6tn (£4.4tn) every three months in a hostile market. The budget deficit was $432bn for the single month of July, up 48pc from the year before.”
“Trump has a solution for this and a warning for any bond investor that declines to feed his appetite. “We have many types of intervention. The ultimate intervention is our military. And if we have to use that, we will,” he said.
Does he intend to parachute the 101st Airborne into London’s Canary Wharf and Singapore’s harbour district to cart off pension fund managers in shackles for interrogation at Guantánamo?
It is normal to dial up pressure by starting with economic sanctions before escalating to killing people. Everybody can see that Trump is doing it the other way round because killing has comprehensively failed.
The world can see that the US is overstretched, lacks sufficient military power to enforce its will, has exhausted two thirds of its Patriot interceptors and “virtually all” its surface-to-surface (Atacms) missiles, and has denuded its defences in the Far East. It can see that the US lacks the stomach for a full ground invasion of Iran and anything short of that is whistling in the wind.”
“Iran can see all of this too. The regime has survived a bombing campaign and the assassination of 180 members of its leadership cast. Sanctions are almost laughable at this juncture.
Iran’s land border stretches for 5,900 kilometres across seven countries, most of them either friendly or cynically transactional. The frontier rises in an arc from Pakistan to the Eurasian heartland around the Caspian, then down the other side to Turkey and the entire eastern side of Iraq. It is impossible to sustain a goods blockade.
The International North-South Transport Corridor already runs as a rail freight link from Russia through Central Asia to Iran. The maritime route via the Caspian does a booming trade as well.
Russia cannot export much grain through the Black Sea right now because of Ukrainian drones so it is exporting what it can to Iran and through Iranian proxies to the wider Middle East. Ergo, a) Iran will have enough food for itself even if its economy is in dire straits and b) Iran will gain strategic leverage as a grain conduit to a region facing serious food stress.”
“China currently buys 90pc of Iran’s oil and in return China sells it machinery, vehicles and electronics, including sensors and engines for Iran’s Shahed drones as well as propellants for its ballistic missiles.
China will not let the US dictate how and with whom it may trade. It will go to some lengths to demonstrate this objection.
If the US imposes secondary sanctions on Chinese banks and entities, Beijing has a rich menu of retaliation, starting with curbs on critical minerals.
Bessent has demonstrated by his actions that he fears rising US bond yields. Beijing knows this, and if it wants to rattle his cage, it can play a few hedge fund tricks of its own by weaponising $4tn of dollar assets held by the Chinese central bank, the state-controlled commercial banks and the giant state-policy banks.
If the US does impose secondary sanctions on Chinese banks, it will have to do the same to European banks that do business with China, otherwise the financial blockade breaks down. But the EU now has its blocking statute aimed at forbidding its own companies from complying with US extra-territorial sanctions or submitting to US coercion.”
“Iran has a say in the matter too and may choose to hold Trump’s feet to the fire, exploiting the window between now and the mid-term elections to cause commodity havoc while always staying just below the threshold of total conflagration.
“If the economic war continues, not a single drop of oil will be exported, neither through the Strait of Hormuz nor from anywhere in the Persian Gulf,” said Mohsen Rezaee, the head of Iran’s Supreme National Security Council.”
“That too is bluster, but it is closer to the truth than Washington cares to admit. Iran still controls the Strait of Hormuz and has a second partial stranglehold over the Red Sea via its Houthi allies.
It still has a sufficient arsenal of drones and missiles hidden in mountains to strike commercial shipping at will and enough to inflict serious damage to the energy infrastructure of the Gulf states.
The rest of us are condemned to months of mounting stress in the global hydrocarbon markets as storage falls to critically low levels and even greater stress in the markets for diesel, petrol and jet fuel.”
“The refined petroleum products that we consume are trading today at levels equivalent to crude oil prices of $140 to $160 a barrel.
The IATA jet fuel index is $170 in Europe and $165 in the US.
Wholesale diesel costs $185 in New York harbour and $180 in Rotterdam, and it is diesel that fuels farming, trucking, construction and swaths of the industrial economy on both sides of the Atlantic.
Natural gas prices in Europe are trading this week at €69 per megawatt hour, higher than the panic peak at the onset of Trump’s Iran war.
European inventories are disturbingly low for this time of the year, and Britain has almost no safety buffer. Andy Burnham will face his first big crisis if this winter proves harsh.”
“These commodity costs are becoming embedded in the global supply chain, are already visible in rising bond yields and will soon to be visible in rising inflation and the cost of living.
It is hard to see any way out of this impasse since Trump has only two options: either to accept defeat on Iranian terms, which become more exigent by the week, or to mobilise the US for a long, bloody and costly war that consumes his presidency and may also end in defeat. He shrinks from both.
Trump is instead clutching at straws, searching for an elusive, painless out and drawing out the agony for the US and the world.
At least Jimmy Carter knew his limits.”

Trump wants to unleash ‘economic D-Day’. But Iran is no stranger to pain — The Telegraph

If the president really thinks Tehran’s mullahs are ‘on the ropes’, he risks a rude awakening

https://apple.news/PA7-xVPTbUUoyhRFmFIM-zY

trumpredcard · 26/08/2026 07:09

That Telegraph journalist didn't mince his words, did he. A cold and comprehensive dissection of Trump's foolish foreign policy. Actually at this stage, I can't blame Trump alone as the hands of both officials and advisers are all over this mess. No one was brave enough, or selfless enough, or patriotic enough, to persist in making him see sense. It's no wonder Trump has been called the most dangerous man in the world, while China waits for him to reap the whirlwind he's brought to the world.

Squeezingwildoranges · 26/08/2026 07:51

Twiglets1 · 26/08/2026 00:44

4 years later!

I don't know what the timeline means considering France was recovering from a brutal occupation and devastating destruction but if you want to go there, the first treaty was the Dunkirk treaty signed between Great Britain and France in 1947 with the focus on Germany if it rose for a third time. The following year it became the Brussels pact when Belgium, Luxembourg and the Netherlands joined. In 1949, the US and Canada decided they wanted in on the deal, so it became the Washington treaty, what is now NATO and the focus was no longer Germany but the expansion of the Soviet Union. So it only took 2 years for France and Great Britain to make an alliance despite Britain having bombed France.

Twiglets1 · 26/08/2026 07:58

Squeezingwildoranges · 26/08/2026 07:51

I don't know what the timeline means considering France was recovering from a brutal occupation and devastating destruction but if you want to go there, the first treaty was the Dunkirk treaty signed between Great Britain and France in 1947 with the focus on Germany if it rose for a third time. The following year it became the Brussels pact when Belgium, Luxembourg and the Netherlands joined. In 1949, the US and Canada decided they wanted in on the deal, so it became the Washington treaty, what is now NATO and the focus was no longer Germany but the expansion of the Soviet Union. So it only took 2 years for France and Great Britain to make an alliance despite Britain having bombed France.

Nevertheless rumours of a pact between Britain & France while Britain was still attacking France (via proxies in the case of Iran attacking SA) would obviously have been premature -much like this rumour.

Squeezingwildoranges · 26/08/2026 08:05

trumpredcard · 26/08/2026 00:27

When a former Chief of Staff to a US Secretary of State says that the US won't win an economic war against Iran and that Bessent might as well go home, and some posters on this thread had already come to the same conclusion themselves, what possible reasons are Trump's advisers giving that makes them think economic pressure will work?

It's a giant game of chicken and Trump's desperate last throw of the dice. It can only work if the rest of the world complies. If they do, US hegemony is restored and Iran will have to back down. If enough large economies push back and don't comply, the tactic totally fails. My money is on the whole thing failing. It is what happens then that is the issue and the most worrying part. I can't see the US quietly crawling off to lick its wounds and if it does, what the hell will Israel do?

Squeezingwildoranges · 26/08/2026 08:36

Twiglets1 · 26/08/2026 07:58

Nevertheless rumours of a pact between Britain & France while Britain was still attacking France (via proxies in the case of Iran attacking SA) would obviously have been premature -much like this rumour.

Timeline is irrelevant. Iran has already stated it will come to Turkey's aid if it is attacked by Israel. If Turkey and Pakistan want to invite Iran to join the pact, Saudi will comply even if they're not happy. Without a doubt though there would have to be a resolution to the Houthis/PLC issue. There almost was but fighting has flared up again at the moment.

Newbutoldfather · 26/08/2026 08:53

@Squeezingwildoranges

‘Timeline is irrelevant. Iran has already stated it will come to Turkey's aid if it is attacked by Israel.’

That’s just mischief making by Iran (just for a change).

Turkey has no need for Iran’s help, besides being a member of NATO. If Israel were stupid enough to attack Turkey (they aren’t), Turkey would get help from far more powerful allies than Iran.

rainingsnoring · 26/08/2026 09:00

Newbutoldfather · 26/08/2026 08:53

@Squeezingwildoranges

‘Timeline is irrelevant. Iran has already stated it will come to Turkey's aid if it is attacked by Israel.’

That’s just mischief making by Iran (just for a change).

Turkey has no need for Iran’s help, besides being a member of NATO. If Israel were stupid enough to attack Turkey (they aren’t), Turkey would get help from far more powerful allies than Iran.

Do you honestly think that NATO would defend Turkey and attack Israel if Israel were to attack Turkey?! Several prominent Israelis have talked about Turkey being a threat to Israel for some months. I'm sure we all hope that the risks are as close to zero as possible but they are not nil.
Iran has come to the aid of several other countries who are being attacked- see the first point of the MOU, so I don't think you can dismiss this fully.

RedTagAlan · 26/08/2026 09:01

Squeezingwildoranges · 26/08/2026 08:05

It's a giant game of chicken and Trump's desperate last throw of the dice. It can only work if the rest of the world complies. If they do, US hegemony is restored and Iran will have to back down. If enough large economies push back and don't comply, the tactic totally fails. My money is on the whole thing failing. It is what happens then that is the issue and the most worrying part. I can't see the US quietly crawling off to lick its wounds and if it does, what the hell will Israel do?

What friendly nation will even want to do any sort of deal with the US these days. See what is happening with Canada just now. A full on trade war over what appears to have started over a bridge that Canada paid for and built.

He is coming across as totally unstable. Truthing all sorts on nonsense out at all hours.

Trump floats renaming Lake Ontario to ‘Lake America’ as feud with Canada escalates | CNN Politics

And he is spending as if there was no tomorrow.

Trump floats renaming Lake Ontario to ‘Lake America’ as feud with Canada escalates | CNN Politics

President Donald Trump on Tuesday escalated his feud with Canadian leaders, suggesting the United States is considering renaming Lake Ontario to “Lake America” as tensions between the two countries rise amid an ongoing trade war.

https://edition.cnn.com/2026/08/25/politics/trump-canada-lake-ontario-name

OP posts:
Newbutoldfather · 26/08/2026 09:06

@JadeHare ,

Do you have an actual link to your long telegraph story above.

The link you posted with it is a different, albeit similar, story. The quote seems very strong from a main stream media source.

JadeHare · 26/08/2026 09:08

Newbutoldfather · 26/08/2026 08:53

@Squeezingwildoranges

‘Timeline is irrelevant. Iran has already stated it will come to Turkey's aid if it is attacked by Israel.’

That’s just mischief making by Iran (just for a change).

Turkey has no need for Iran’s help, besides being a member of NATO. If Israel were stupid enough to attack Turkey (they aren’t), Turkey would get help from far more powerful allies than Iran.

Just mischief making by Iran. Are you sure? This was in CNN the other day:

The giant billboard on Tel Aviv’s main highway placed Turkey squarely at the center of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’selection campaign. The image showed its president, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, alongside the leaders of Iran, Hezbollah and the mayor of New York City as adversaries of Israel under the slogan, “They want Netanyahu to lose. Don’t let them win.”
Just a few days later, Turkey became the center of Israel’s latest military confrontation as well.
Israeli jets struck the Abu al-Dahar airbase in northern Syria, targeting what officials said was an emerging Turkish military buildup that Israel viewed as a significant threat.
But with elections just over two months away, the strike’s proximity to Netanyahu’s campaign messaging has fueled a debate in Israel and abroad: is Netanyahu preempting a genuine strategic threat or amplifying one to boost his ballot-box standing?

Israel moves forward with internationally condemned settlement plan that could ‘bury’ two-state solution | CNN

The Israeli government advanced an internationally condemned settlement plan in the occupied West Bank that could split the territory and “bury” the possibility of a two-state solution.

https://www.cnn.com/2026/08/20/middleeast/israel-e1-settlement-bids-intl

Squeezingwildoranges · 26/08/2026 09:09

@rainingsnoring , "Several prominent Israelis have talked about Turkey being a threat to Israel for some months. I'm sure we all hope that the risks are as close to zero as possible but they are not nil."

I wouldn't say it is close to zero. Israel has been sabre rattling for months now and what was the attack on the Abu al-Duhur Military Airbase about.

Newbutoldfather · 26/08/2026 09:09

@rainingsnoring ,

‘Do you honestly think that NATO would defend Turkey and attack Israel if Israel were to attack Turkey?! Several prominent Israelis have talked about Turkey being a threat to Israel for some months. I'm sure we all hope that the risks are as close to zero as possible but they are not nil.’

Obviously that depends on a lot of factors but, fundamentally, I do believe that NATO would come to Turkey’s aid. There may be a strong warning to Israel to cease and desist first but, if they continued, what choice would they have?

If they didn’t then NATO is meaningless and it is a green light for Putin to attack the Baltic republics.

JadeHare · 26/08/2026 09:10

Newbutoldfather · 26/08/2026 09:06

@JadeHare ,

Do you have an actual link to your long telegraph story above.

The link you posted with it is a different, albeit similar, story. The quote seems very strong from a main stream media source.

From my news app. Stories drop out of it as I have read them. It was a pure copy and paste job.

JadeHare · 26/08/2026 09:13

Israel are causing mischief if you ask me. Bibi is trying to save his skinny ass from jail.

Newbutoldfather · 26/08/2026 09:13

@Squeezingwildoranges ,

That was an empty airbase that the Turks had discussed using.

Attacking that and attacking Turkey proper is the difference between attacking a U.S airfield in Saudi Arabia, say, and attacking the U.S mainland.

Netanyahu is aggressive, but he isn’t mad. What on earth could he hope to achieve by attacking Turkey? That would really create an existential threat to Israel.

Newbutoldfather · 26/08/2026 09:15

@JadeHare ,

‘From my news app. Stories drop out of it as I have read them. It was a pure copy and paste job.’

That is a real ‘wow’ moment for me and really the last thing I would expect to see in the Torygraph, especially the word ‘hallucinating’ as applied to the POTUS!

I am guessing it was an opinion piece, but still.

JadeHare · 26/08/2026 09:16

Newbutoldfather · 26/08/2026 09:15

@JadeHare ,

‘From my news app. Stories drop out of it as I have read them. It was a pure copy and paste job.’

That is a real ‘wow’ moment for me and really the last thing I would expect to see in the Torygraph, especially the word ‘hallucinating’ as applied to the POTUS!

I am guessing it was an opinion piece, but still.

Facts and figures will be correct regardless though.

TopPocketFind · 26/08/2026 09:22

A quick look at the Telegraph website would have brought up the article but here you go @Newbutoldfather

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2026/08/25/trumps-economic-d-day-against-iran-is-doomed-to-failure/

Squeezingwildoranges · 26/08/2026 09:28

Newbutoldfather · 26/08/2026 09:13

@Squeezingwildoranges ,

That was an empty airbase that the Turks had discussed using.

Attacking that and attacking Turkey proper is the difference between attacking a U.S airfield in Saudi Arabia, say, and attacking the U.S mainland.

Netanyahu is aggressive, but he isn’t mad. What on earth could he hope to achieve by attacking Turkey? That would really create an existential threat to Israel.

I agree with you he would be totally mad if he tried to attack Turkey. Especially now. In fact I think he is mad anyway. I believe it was the plan that once Iran had been dealt with which the US and Israel mistakenly thought would have taken a matter of days, they would turn their attention to Turkey. All this is part of the plan to make Israel the dominant power in the Middle East by degrading all other potential threats. How they planned to do this while Turkey was a member of NATO is baffling but perhaps the US or I should say Trump, would simply have accepted it as the death of NATO. The situation is very different now with the US effectively looking at defeat against Iran. I actually think, considering Israel has an undisclosed nuclear arsenal, it is getting even more dangerous because I don't know how Israel is going to react if it loses US protection.

Newbutoldfather · 26/08/2026 10:02

@TopPocketFind ,

I don’t see the need for the sarcasm, but thanks for the link.

I don’t actually subscribe to the Telegraph as it is normally really quite right wing and low on quality, but it does have the odd interesting article.

rainingsnoring · 26/08/2026 10:08

Squeezingwildoranges · 26/08/2026 09:09

@rainingsnoring , "Several prominent Israelis have talked about Turkey being a threat to Israel for some months. I'm sure we all hope that the risks are as close to zero as possible but they are not nil."

I wouldn't say it is close to zero. Israel has been sabre rattling for months now and what was the attack on the Abu al-Duhur Military Airbase about.

I totally agree with you. I don't think the risks are zero at all. I deliberately worded my sentence in the least offensive way I could as I have accused of being antisemitic multiple times on here just for criticising the actions of the state of Israel.

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