Should the international community sanction Israel over settler violence in West Bank?

[FloralDeerPattern]

The problem of Israeli terrorism is getting worse and worse. Just over the past few weeks amongst other things Israeli terrorists have killed multiple people, commited sexual assault, beaten and threatened to rape young Palestinian girls, continually attacked the residents and property of the only remaining fully Christian town in the West Bank, stolen 100s of sheep from the Bedouin community, beaten activists who are there to provide a protective presence to Palestinians, set fire to property.

Palestinians don't have the right to defend themselves from this violent, rapidly escalating Israeli terrorism. They can't arrest and detain the Israeli terrorists. They are sitting ducks with no means of protecting themselves from beatings and sexual violence. Is it time that the international community steps in and sanctions Israel until they can control their obvious terrorism problem? What else can be done to try and protect innocent people from this escalating Israeli violence?

@rainingsnoring ,

I agree with you about people picking up on petty arguments and trying to win semantic battles, rather than focusing on the big picture. However, I would only open links from reliable sources, for both safety and reliability. I don’t think that is quite the same.

I don’t think Netanyahu is meaningfully trying to control media output. What he does control though is access. I am not saying it is good, but I do think that it is less bad.

Unlike dictators in Iran and Russia, say, Netanyahu is not that popular and risks losing the election. That is a symptom of an effectively functioning media.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-urges-ben-gvir-smotrich-to-unite-as-poll-shows-winters-new-party-surging/amp/

https://en.idi.org.il/tags-en/1465

You just don’t get reporting like that in Iran or open demonstrations tolerated (as we have seen).

If you went to Tel Avov now, you could sit around a dinner table and openly put forward your views, and many would agree with you, especially about settler violence. That is why, although I am scared for Israel’s future, I am still hopeful that, like SA, they can change and integrate into the western community. It is far from guaranteed, but it is definitely possible.

I didn't attack you personally, I simply questioned your choice to post a link to an unbelievably vile youtube channel. You're the one who seems to be going on the attack.

Reveals just how endemic land theft has become in the state of Israel.
I welcome the news that Burnham is planning to sanction business from the illegal settlements - it’s at least a performative step in the right direction and better than nothing, but doesn’t this just prove that no one really cares? They don’t care because they know it won’t touch them. The only thing that will make a difference is the implementation (and not the threat as it’s too late for that) of full sanctions.

Your post was the one that got deleted so presumably that was an actual personal attack not just a comment on someone’s algorithms.

https://www.nbcnews.com/world/middle-east/palestinian-nbc-news-team-attacked-masked-israeli-settlers-rcna595024
NBC crew attacked by the terrorists. Note after last week encouraging and praising the illegal settlements Netanyahu now condemns "the handful of rioters" .(Nice bit of minimisation) because they were American.

Agree that Netanyahu referring to a "handful of rioters" is minimising.

However, he was not just condemning that attack on a Palestinian woman and NBC ("because they were American" ) but also - as your source says - other incidents across the area on Saturday.

The Jerusalem Post reports that Netanyahu condemned violence committed by dozens of settler rioters who gathered on the outskirts of the village of Kusra in the West Bank on Saturday, igniting violent clashes with the local residents.

“I strongly condemn the criminal acts of violence committed in the villages of Kusra and Jalud by a handful of rioters who violate the law, cause enormous injustice to the law-abiding settler public, hinder the IDF in fulfilling its missions, and harm Israel’s standing in the world,” Netanyahu said in a statement.

Netanyahu added that security forces had ended the incident “in a short time” and confiscated three vehicles.

The IDF, the Shin Bet (Israel Security Agency), and the police are conducting an investigation, Netanyahu said, adding that he expected the rioters to be arrested and brought to justice.

www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-906950

It is totally performative. If Burnham really wanted to do something all the groups and their members like Nachala, Yesha council, Amana, The Hilltop Youth and Lehava should be proscribed as terrorist organisations. Not just by the UK government, the UN should proscribe them too. I also think Religious Zionism and Otzma Yehudit should be included in that proscription along with their leaders Smotrich and Ben Gvir.

@Twiglets1 ,

‘NBC ("because they were American" ) but also - as your source says - other incidents across the area on Saturday.

The Jerusalem Post reports that Netanyahu condemned violence committed by dozens of settler rioters who gathered on the outskirts of the village of Kusra in the West Bank on Saturday, igniting violent clashes with the local residents.
“I strongly condemn the criminal acts of violence committed in the villages of Kusra and Jalud by a handful of rioters who violate the law, cause enormous injustice to the law-abiding settler public, hinder the IDF in fulfilling its missions, and harm Israel’s standing in the world,” Netanyahu said in a statement.
Netanyahu added that security forces had ended the incident “in a short time” and confiscated three vehicles.
The IDF, the Shin Bet (Israel Security Agency), and the police are conducting an investigation, Netanyahu said, adding that he expected the rioters to be arrested and brought to justice.’

It’s great to see this BUT the problem is anecdote isn’t data. Let’s see how many of the rioters end up with one day in jail.

And the statistics of dispossessed Palestinians vs any settlers receiving any consequences speak for themselves.

Hopefully, Israel is waking up to the international disgust over settler violence and is going to start taking it seriously.

But, for me to believe a word of it, I need to see Ben G’vir and Smotrich gone and Netanyahu publicly disavowing their statements.

I posted earlier about a speech Netanyahu gave a few days ago to the settlers where he thanked them so which is it. Is he condemning them or is he thanking them.

Agree @Newbutoldfather we need to wait and see how many of the rioters end up in jail, if none then it's just empty words.

I would love to see Ben G’vir and Smotrich gone too (who wouldn't?) and the voters in Israel need to make sure this happens in the October elections. They are a complete liability to any political party.

Both.

He is in favour of settlements in the West Bank and yes, thanked settler leaders a few days ago.

However, he spoke against the "criminal acts of violence” carried out by settlers in two Palestinian West Bank villages yesterday.

And you really believe he opposes the violence? His condemnations are empty words for the international cameras. Perhaps you didn't hear about the old Palestinian who got shot in the leg for trying to stop settlers/terrorists from stealing his olive grove only for the IDF to arrest and fine him and his son. No consequences for the terrorists.

@Squeezingwildoranges ,

‘And you really believe he opposes the violence? His condemnations are empty words for the international cameras. Perhaps you didn't hear about the old Palestinian who got shot in the leg for trying to stop settlers/terrorists from stealing his olive grove only for the IDF to arrest and fine him and his son. No consequences for the terrorists.’

I tend to agree here. He says one thing in Hebrew to a domestic audience, especially away from Tel Aviv and Jerusalem and another to the English language press.

In addition , he neither muzzles nor sacks the open racists in his government.

The other thing I don’t understand is why the IDF are doing the policing. The military hate policing and aren’t trained for it. They need a proper police force to enforce the law without fear or favour.

Netanyahu does not want to do either of those things, although arguably for different reasons. The only way that all the horrific violence being carried out by various groups of Israelis is if the Western countries actually do something. This isn't going to happen.

Condemning the people carrying out these attacks is mere lip service when they know they have the full weight of the military, police, government and him himself supporting their actions.

Headed by Itamar Ben-Gvir, this ministry has overseen the wide-scale distribution of over 120,000 firearms and assault rifles (such as US-made M16s), alongside pistols and drones, to settlers and residents in the occupied West Bank and East Jerusalem.

You can't give them guns then condemn them for using them .

I tend to agree here. He says one thing in Hebrew to a domestic audience, especially away from Tel Aviv and Jerusalem and another to the English language press.

I saw Israelis discussing(laughing about) this on reddit, they were saying how it's quite common for Israelis to have one answer in Hebrew and one answer in English when asked about 'settlers'.

I'm not as sure as some that the elections in Israel are cut and dry. Israelis like most of us care most of us about their daily lives, the cost of living etc. If there are no meaningful sanctions put on Israel and it's not looking like there will be then the settlements and the settlers are overall a net positive.

The settlers and the IDF do the dirty work then you can move in, get a cheaper, larger home. Get tax breaks and subsidies for living in a settlement. You can get specialised mortgages for buying in some settlement areas. Great school and community facilities often funded by people overseas like the charities in the UK that sent millions to build Jewish schools in illegal settlements. There are lots of work and business opportunities too, new communities need builders, shops, cafes, Dr surgeries, teachers, salons etc etc.

It sounds harsh maybe but realistically most people where ever they are be it Israel or the UK care most about their own families, their standard of living and opportunities.

Did I say that? No I didn't.

I was just answering your question about Is he condemning them or is he thanking them.

He has actually done both in recent days.

Agree the condemnation rings hollow which is why I made a point of saying "too little too late" and also that it will be "just empty words" if none of the rioters end up in jail.

We both know that if the Israeli government wanted to put a stop to the violent settler/terrorists, the IDF could do it in a minute. The fact they haven't acted and the terrorists face no consequences means any talk of condemnation by Netanyahu is just performative.

It's meaningful in a way which is that it shows he cares about Israel not getting international sanctions.

Beyond that - yes we agree that the Israeli government could put a stop to settler violence if he cared that much about it.

Apologies as I've just realised that my ""too little too late" comment re Netanyahu condemning settler violence was actually made on a different thread.

Palestinians need protection from the daily onslaught from these terrorists until full sanctions are in place and Israel puts the brakes on land theft and violence. There needs to be an international presence in the WB And EJ in the interim.

The only protection they have currently is from a very brave group of activists and journalists.The world watches while this band of young people put themselves between the Palestinians and the thugs that terrorise them on behalf of the Israeli government which fully endorses, funds and legitimises their actions.

Meanwhile Western resources are instead deployed in a pointless war at the behest of Israel, which is simultaneously embarked on the destruction of Lebanon, accumulating a catalogue of war crimes which mirror their Gazan strategy where health services snd journalists are deliberately targeted and huge explosions are designed to cause mass destruction.

But this is all apparently permissible because sanctions will hurt ‘ordinary’ people Are the Palestinians and Lebanese not ordinary people?

It's a crazy one, innocent Israelis get killed by terrorists and people sit back and watch as tens of thousands of innocent Palestinians are killed and starved in return. Innocent Palestinians are killed and suffering under sustained attacks by Israeli terrorist 'settlers' and oop we can't sanction Israel, can't even eject them from sporting comps because that's seen as too harsh?! If anyone can come up with a logical reason for this other than racism I'm all ears.

Apparently not. As @FloralDeerPattern says, it racism. Some people's lives are worth more than others.

Haaretz today:

"This government will not acquiesce in the destruction of the two-state solution," he said. "We will act and I will set out a comprehensive set of measures in the coming weeks."
He said Prime Minister Andy Burnham had discussed taking further action to ban trade in goods from Israeli settlements, adding that the government was working across departments and with its international allies on its response.”
“"If you are for the two-state solution and you see it being destroyed by the facts on the ground, you must act. And I can assure you, we are going to," he added.
Miliband also said that "we do not want British companies financing, constructing or advertising new settlements. The work we are now undertaking is how we can stop that."”
On Tuesday, Gideon Sa'ar, Israel's foreign minister, said on a podcast that Israel would retaliate if Britain took measures against it over settlement expansion, warning that such a move would amount to interference in Israel's upcoming election. "If Britain acts against Israel, Israel will act against Britain."
He did not specify what measures Israel would take. "We have the tools to respond. What I've said is enough. We are preparing. I hope they don't make a mistake. If they do, there will be a response."
“The Financial Times reported several days ago that Israel was considering expelling British representatives from the Gaza coordination center in Kiryat Gat in response to Britain's criticism of the E1 settlement plan - and potentially to measures London itself is considering over Israeli settlements.
A diplomatic source who spoke with Haaretz said such a move would be problematic because Britain has the third-largest delegation at the Kiryat Gat center, after the United States and Israel, and a British commander also serves as the center's deputy commander.
According to the diplomat, expelling the British delegation could also create problems with the United States, since Israel would effectively be undermining an initiative the Americans established.”
“Miliband's remarks come after leading British Jewish organizations this week urged the government not to impose sanctions on Israeli settlements.
U.K. Chief Rabbi Ephraim Mirvis met Miliband recently and warned on Sunday that such measures would be "counter-productive," while the Jewish Leadership Council and Board of Deputies of British Jews also raised concerns about their potential impact on the country's Jewish community.
Bloomberg reported earlier this month that the British government is considering banning trade in all goods and services with Israeli settlements in the West Bank. The report followed Israel's publication of a tender for 1,200 housing units in E1, between Jerusalem and the Ma'ale Adumim settlement.
Miliband previously called the E1 tender an "unacceptable and destructive act" and said the government's response could include sanctions targeting those involved in settlement expansion.”
Excerpt From
“U.K. to unveil 'comprehensive' measures against Israeli settlements in coming weeks, Miliband says”
Liza Rozovsky
Haaretz
https://apple.news/ACPwSyScqTm-lWy8tTDw63g